008 | Data Analysis in On-trade: how to systematize your approach to bars | Part 1/2 of the Interview with Dom Bowcock, Co-founder of Bowimi (London, UK)

I'm Chris my fill a drinks
industry advisor and found the

room.
Affair drinks.

Host of the most feared Rings
podcast.

In this episode, I had the
pleasure to interview Dome ball

cock, the co-founder of bohemia
Dom and I met on LinkedIn a

couple of years ago and I was
impressed by his CRM system,

boy, me as it as it is really
Hands-On and you can see how it

has been really built from the
bottom up.

The reason why I wanted to have
him as a guest and I'm really

happy about it is that you know,
he works with sales teams every

day and he knows they're
struggling, needs both from a

Founder perspective.
But overall, so from a sales rep

perspective.
So we spoke about all things

about selling two bars from
planning where to sail, to how

to do it.
And I hope you will enjoy our

chat.
Hi, Dom, how you doing?

Thanks for, thanks for being a
guest on the mafia drinks

podcast.
Welcome.

Thanks a lot Chris.
Yeah.

Now we're really excited to be
on here and so I really

appreciate you having me on and
really excited.

Yeah.
Go through a few of the

questions.
Fantastic, fantastic.

So let's start, first of all, I
mean, where are we at?

Where are you calling from?
I am.

So I'm I'm in South London at
the moment.

It's I can just about say, it's
sunny South London.

It's been a been a pretty
miserable over the last few

months but we've just about
reached the summer.

So just starting to see a few
different types of drinks,

coming into the beer, gardens at
the moment.

That the so Thinking about your
experience and what you do with

with Bowie me, I was thinking of
doing a little bit of a

different set of questions that
I that I've got prepared here

from for you.
Since you're not a natural brand

owner in the incense in the
sense of like a drinks, drinks

brand.
But obviously, I mean, you're a

business owner.
So, you understand the, the, the

issues very, very well.
So, We met we met through

Linkedin some time ago.
I don't know if it's what like a

couple of years back, I guess.
And I was thinking like, you

know, my my Mantra the that
brands are built from the bottom

up.
So what does what does that mean

for you in terms of you know
like for you as a as a business

owner but then also you know for
the brands that were there are

using bohemia's a platform and
that you work with Daily Show.

Yeah.
And I I mean, yeah.

I mean we I think we probably
met over LinkedIn because I saw

everything that you were talking
about was if we had to write a

script about what we believe it
was sort of just that.

So it fitted perfectly and this
idea of being built from the

bottom up is, so on point what
we've tried to do with our

platform, so I think yeah, that
the idea of sort of building

from the bottom up is so
essential and there's I think

there's almost a slightly
romantic idea when you everyone

I think everyone at some point
in their life probably has a

Idea for a food or drink brand,
right?

It's, you know, it's just
something that everyone wants to

do now.
The people who actually get to

the point of starting it great.
That's, that's fantastic.

They've got there.
But I think there's then also

the sort of romantic idea that
you're going to come up with a

product, which has a lovely
taste and lovely packaging and

you get into the big chains and
then you buy your yacht.

Yeah.
And it's where is actually the

idea of building up a brand and
a food.

And drip, I mean, it's similar
for all companies but and

startups, I suppose the
especially in food and drink and

drink and Killers.
It's something that involves in

something that you've really got
to learn from the front line.

And I think, you know, it's
something where that front line

of knowing what your car getting
feedback from customers, getting

feedback from buyers suppliers
is so crucial to then actually

understanding what the end
product will be.

And, and what's funny is in a
way, we've built our business as

a software company, only because
we've constantly talking to our

customers being building, what
they want to know, and in very

similarly and, you know, with a
This brand what you first come

up with is going to be so
different to the end product.

And I think there's so much you
can do as well before even

getting to anywhere near the
end.

And we have got really nice
example.

There's if there's a run
company, we work with could drop

works.
Now, I say a run company, they

don't.
They've I think they've only

just got their first drop of
liquid but what they've been

doing is even whilst waiting or
said building.

Distillery the loads and loads
of sort of different moving

Parts they've been going around
to bars.

They've been speaking to the bar
owners to the Tenders and say

okay you know, if we are going
to come into this category, what

are you lacking?
What do you think is really

going to help speaking to the
consumers before?

They've even got one drop of
liquid out there?

They've understood what's going
on on the ground so it can start

to form rather than doing the
other way around which doesn't

really make any sense.
So I think it's, it's a hugely

important part of building a
brand like that.

Nice.
Nice.

And do you think this applies
only to smaller brands or do you

think this is such We like
something that the big brands

should actually, I think it's
100% something for both.

I think there's so with the
small Brands as of saying,

there's so much you can learn
from it.

And I think so.
You know, for taking an example,

we, there's a creating a set
list of data points and just

say, okay, I'm going to go out
to these potential stockist that

I've got these potential
customers.

I just need to find some basic
things which can then guide me

and you can even turn negatives
into positives.

So we had a customer that when
they were getting loads of

negative responses that we do
better than this.

And it said I actually, you
know, but one of the data points

are recording was okay if you
don't make a sale well why, why

is that?
And they had some set options

and one of one of the options
was packaging and it just turned

out that their packaging.
Their bottles are pretty too big

for most.
The fridges and so but they

wouldn't have found that out
unless they've gone to the, you

know, being on the ground and
speaking to Those venues.

So I think something like that
is obviously a big learning for

a small brand, you know, just
something is small and trivial

and what what they're able to do
is then spin that around, change

their packaging and sell, get
back to all of those venues and

say, here we are, but I think
the with the larger Brands, it's

so important as well.
So I think it the example, I

always think of is in the UK
Guinness recently became the

most popular pint which actually
for pretty premium product is,

you know, overtook Carling and
it's Very, very impressive for a

company.
Like, so for Diageo to achieve

that with a premium product.
One of the reasons is because

even know you get Guinness in
pretty much every venue.

They are still so religious
about going in and making sure.

Is it in the glass?
Where is the is the bartender?

Pouring it correctly, you know,
letting it settle.

Are they wearing t-shirts to
people?

You know is it in the right
places at the right time?

The sport is showing and I think
they're such a good example of

someone who they could have
happily gone.

Brilliant Guinness is In every
venue.

Let's put our feet up and move
on to the next product or move

on to the next Market.
Whereas, actually, what they've

done is, they've doubled down
and they really gone.

You've been in every venue that
they're selling through and

making sure that, even though it
stopped in there and selling,

but the actual purchasing
experience for the consumer is

correct.
So, now, I think it's something

that goes right up to the very,
very top of even as with a

company, like, the agitate
second salon, and actually, it's

pretty spot-on with my
experience.

Because yesterday, I was at an
event, I'm Member of the Czech

Irish Chamber of Commerce here
in Prague and we actually had a

meeting.
We had a one of these monthly

meetups in an Irish Pub here and
I had a couple of Guinness and

which is quite rare to find here
in Prague because I mean, this

is like a Pilsner land.
But as you said, like even here

where, you know, it wouldn't be,
let's say a priority market, so

to say, and the did the
experience was like, always

perfect.
And, you know, you always Have

to wait, you know, like sometime
like to get together foam to

the, you know, to settle down
and and then you get it and, and

the and the experiences is is
consistent or whatever you found

every everywhere.
And and what I was when you were

talking, I mean, I was even
thinking about the fact that I

feel, you know, the own trade
specifically, it's very similar

to, you know, for moat for for
small.

Trans Am big Brands, I feel if
you haven't done the homework,

right, you know, from the
beginning.

And you got to a certain stage
of your brand like your you

scaled up in the off trade too
quickly, then you always have to

go back to the on trade and
relearn the the you know what,

what you have to do.
And I guess this is something

that you're probably
experiencing with, you know,

let's say companies that come
and call you to use.

Bowie me Well, you know they
were using a bigger much bigger

CRM system and Tool and
software.

And they actually they have to
kind of like scale back to

really understand the need to
greet see of the other business.

I'm I am I right without
mentioning any name, of course

not.
Yeah, hundred percent.

And, you know, in the UK for
example we've got we've got a

few big supermarkets for example
which you can which are actually

quite quite good at giving
chances to small Brands.

It's very hard to actually get
the Through once you're in but I

think what can often happen is,
you know?

Yeah, yeah you can think oh,
I've been successful in the on

Trader and D to C so naturally
I'd be, you know, why wouldn't

it sell?
Well, you know, in the on trade

and we've got company customers
who use bare with me for

multiple different channels, but
when you can't have a sales

pitch which is the same for both
channels, you know, if you're

selling to convenience stores,
that is so different to if

you're going in selling to a
premium, Want a premium cocktail

bar even you know, you know,
just a nice Pub and so I think

it can be a shock to the system
for a lot, a lot of companies

and and it's something we're
even, it's fascinating, I've

even seen people who think they
have a link to the under you

know they might have had a
previous role at a large

corporate so they might have had
previous and then they get there

and go oh actually I might not
know as much as I thought and so

it really is a sort of yet.
It's definitely a wake-up call

for a lot of people when they
actually crushed cross.

The Threshold of the venue and
go.

Oh, this is definitely different
to what I expected.

So, yeah, I can imagine that and
and okay, let me let me ask you

a question.
Like it's a, it's a bit of a

controversial question, on, on,
on my post on LinkedIn when I,

when I, when I, when I ride
above this.

So do you think it's better one
case in one bar or six bottles

in six bars?
What's your take?

Yeah, I can.
It's an interesting one.

I mean not what I'm gonna go
with one case and one bar.

The one caveat I would say is,
if you can get to six bars, then

at least you can learn from
different points of view, rather

than just one point of view that
says, I think, especially with

spirits.
And I think we'll probably go on

to different scene, beer and
spirits.

But like, with Spirits, it's not
not impossible, you know, to get

to your spirit onto the back
bar, you know, to getting them,

adding another Spirit onto the
Shelf, Fine.

But if you don't serve nurture
that relationship, then, you

know, it's completely pointless
and I think if you and when I

say nurturing relationship,
you've only got a certain amount

of resources.
So if you can only nurture the

relationship with one bar, then
just stick with that.

And I used to be, it actually
used to work at cancer which was

a market research companies.
And we used to work with a few

different large corporates and
one of the biggest things they

say, you know, try All was a
huge part of it.

And remember, hearing that the
time to remember the phrase, it

was the corridor of decision.
The decision Corridor where

instead of going into the bar
normally people when they wander

up the last moments after
purchase movie, there we go.

Yeah.
Yeah.

And they and like when you
wander up to a bar you don't

want to look foolish.
You.

And so normally what people do
as they wander, and they've got

sort of something in their mind
or they panic when I get to the

bar, when that department
actually gets them goes, what do

you want?
And I'll just go for something.

Straightaway.
So if you've just got your

product in and it's just sat
there on the Shelf because

you're trying to deal with a
load of other venues, then it's

just going to gather dust and
the venue is eventually going to

ask you to probably trumped by
it back.

I don't want this and so I think
being able to make sure that you

know if you get that case in you
know really understanding how

and you know something you
talked about so much and so well

which is you're not selling to
the bar, you'll see there,

they're the ones who helped sell
you are the not settings.

Then you they help sell you to
your end consumer.

And so, stop trying to think
about how to get them to buy it

and start trying to think about
how you get there, their

customers to buy it because then
if you get good cell through and

it's selling well and better
than the other products that,

you know, you won't need to go
back in to try and sell another

case.
There would probably already

called you up or gone through
the distribution.

So I think it.
Yeah, 100 percent keeping it

small and focused on a small
sort of small-scale experiment

initially or you'll learn
thousand times more than just

Spreading yourself too, thin.
Yeah, and I mean, I hear what

you say.
I mean, to be honest like it

goes also with, you know, when I
rode that that when I drew that

drawing back back in the days,
you know, I obviously obviously

had a point in the, in the one
case in one bar is better than

six bottles in six parts.
That said, of course, like when

you're starting like you will
start with, you know, one bottle

in one bar.
And so 16:6, basically, But then

like as soon as you get some
traction as soon as you get, you

know, like some results then you
need to be able to capitalize on

that because especially you
know, if you are a one man band,

then obviously I mean going
around like giving you know and

selling one bottle to one bar,
each time it's going to be very

very time-consuming.
So I hear what you say that.

It's it goes with time, but I
feel a lot of a lot of brands

are spending much more.
R time in driving distribution.

And so in what I call hunting,
then in farming and really

developing the rate of sale.
The rotation the velocity into

the account and Emma.
Am I right?

Let me, what do you see in India
experience with your with your

brand?
Is that it did?

Am I right that?
There's a much more focus on

Hunting than on farming.
Yeah, I mean, I think there is

naturally.
I mean, it's sort of any sales

person is like this, right?
They just even before they've

closed.
They're like nice one that's in

the back.
What's my next?

My next big opportunity.
And and actually sort of making

sure that you sort of really
focusing is something that a lot

of Brands don't do well enough.
And actually, I look at, we've

started working with a few bit
more successful than their, not

corporates.
But some of the, there's a

company, a company, we're
working with the some very well

in the UK and, you know, death,
their drive to make sure no

we're not just going to be
trying to get into everywhere.

And making sure you go back into
those existing ones and actually

learning what you've done.
Right.

And that's the big thing.
If you do get sell-through,

don't go are brilliant.
Let's move on to the next one.

Go and ask them why, you know
what, why have consumers love to

your product and then use that
to sell on to the next.

So I think yeah, it's definitely
something definitely something

that we see a lot.
And I think also with that with

the larger brands that I think
you, there's so many Brands

which do very well, In a
particular sector and a

particular market.
And then if they don't continue

to do that, what's going to
happen.

So, I think of not not going to
name names of those brand in the

UK right now, or a few years
ago, who did incredibly, well,

they swept Across the Nation.
And they then went right now.

We're going to crack the US
Europe and what's at what does

then happen?
There's been a load of other

similar brands.
Have gone.

Oh, they've done it really well.
What have they done?

Well, what's my I take on that
and then gone to all the venues

where they've actually managed
to get in and sort of start to

take eat that share.
Now, if those other markets,

don't go well, what do you
falling back on?

And they've sort of come back to
this marking gun, homicide, call

all of that hard work.
We've done, you know, and all

all of those accounts which we
were the sort of the ground

Breakers to get into.
People have sort of copied and

done it slightly better, and now
they've taken a lot of our

share.
So I think, you know, making

sure you build up that core is
so important because if you lose

that hard Works gone and you've
burnt you burn to A good lead.

So yeah, absolutely.
And and to build on this one,

like, I mean, I think like I'm a
big fan of winning in your home

turf before venturing abroad,
but then you obviously need to

secure that that space.
And for me, it's very much about

are you focusing on the right
occasion and on the right target

Outlets then that's it.
Make I like to think.

Like does it make sense for that
bar to sell my brand?

Because if I just got Lucky and
drove distribution but for them

it doesn't really make sense,
you know.

They just did it either as a
favor or either because I

invested on it or either you
know, through distribution

because I'm with the right
wholesaler, you know, and I'm

the right brand of the right
time.

But then what does you know, how
does it work?

And what is your experience on
you know to build on this on?

You know, how do they how do
let's say the brands that you

work with or I mean what shoes
what you see and when you're

when you're talking to people,
how do they say?

Acts the the bars to sell to.
Yeah.

If there's a pattern that you
are that you are that you are

singing.
It's a really interesting

question that I think the first
question is, are they selecting

them?
And I think that sense of and

and what we sort of were, it's a
funny situation because we're

not as a software company, we're
not there to tell our customers

want to do, you know, we're
providing a platform which they

use, however, what we do
slightly different We, as we

will say to them look based on,
you know, the way we've seen

other customers use the
platform, you know, we could

suggest this and suggest that.
And I think what's also always

really scary is when, you know,
a customer comes on board now

really, you know, that their
bright-eyed bushy-tailed, really

excited about going and selling
their product and their light,

right?
I'm going to step out my door

and everything in my way will
get sold to.

And, you know, trying to sort of
pull back that into this, and be

like, wait, stop.
Take a step back.

And I think a big thing is, is
how do You measure success.

If you don't, initially set your
Target and so if you just go

walk out the door and be like,
right?

I'm just going to keep selling,
keep selling until we're Global

Brands.
You're never gonna have a

metrics metrics of success, so I
think the companies we've seen

it who have done really well
with it is they've they've they

don't have to know the end
answer but they've gotten

they've got a hypothesis about
what their what their brand

fits.
So okay, I know that my company

is, you know, we recently the
you Spritz.

Company.
And they were saying, right,

with the big orange Spritz is
done very well.

How can we sort of, you know,
how can we provide something?

That might be a bit more premium
and different.

So they've sort of gone, right?
Let's find okay.

It suits the outdoors run,
places with outdoor space.

It's a bit more premium so we
want these geographies because

actually, we don't want
students.

So let's ignore the sort of
student the areas.

We want someone that's got a bit
more affluence and they've

they've been very meticulous in
before they even ever went out

the door.
They were like right, let's

choose these 50 to 100 venues.
And let's just see what they

say.
Because at least from that, and

let's try and let's try and win
25% of them, for example, and

then if not, why has that
happened?

And if yes, and with those ones,
why has that, and if you don't

take a step back to understand
what's happened with those in

it, that initial experiment,
then you're never going to learn

something.
And you're just going to sort of

end up winding up in this sort
of chaotic treading on each

other's toes.
Not not knowing what's going on.

And so, yeah, I think What you
said there's there's the

occasion which I think is really
important, I think I mean,

interestingly seasonality as
well.

So we had a brand-new working
with who although you know

traditionally beer is drunk and
front of a lot of sports or at

least in the UK and I presume
everywhere else the u.s.

suppose.
Yeah, exactly.

And I think what and they sort
of said, well actually can we

can, it can our products which a
bit different.

But can we sort of get into that
market?

So what they did is they were
their products were selling

quite well in other areas.
But over the summer they

basically went right.
Let's try and get an every

place.
That's got what, you know, that

showing sport for the World Cup
and they are able to then plot

on a map, 150 venues showing
Sport and then from there just

before the World Cup they went
right.

Get you know don't think about
anywhere else.

We just want to do a blitz on
venues of you know this

particular it's this category.
Okay tips I'm not just going to

show goes To anywhere.
But then actually we're focusing

on sort of this, this type of
consumer in that is showing

Sports and just due to that
seasonality, they're able to do

incredibly well during an almost
associate their product with

that occasion by looking at that
to the season.

So I think thinking about major
events is also really

interesting way of picking where
you're going to sell to as well.

Yeah.
And this is like just just like

listening to you like and on my
previous experience like I've

got the feeling that Brands are
a little bit, like too reliant

on target consumer, like, on
demographics.

Like I want to have whatever
like 18 to 25, you know, legal

drinking age, of course,
depending on where you are in

the u.s.
OR and UK or whatever, but so

legal drinking, age up to
whatever 25 years old or you

know like affluent or all these
things.

I mean you you probably get it
in your previous experience like

you know, a ABC Plus Us and all
this sort, sort of things but

and also that has a repercussion
on the areas because then you

would say, okay let's focus on
Mayfair.

Let's focus on short ditch,
let's focus on, you know,

whatever, West London, North
London, South London and so on.

But in my experience, what I've
noticed is that very often like

you are misled by this
situation, you know, like this

information because you may
Target a certain areas, but

that's because everybody
everybody can do that.

So, Everybody will end up going.
It's a little bit like the, you

know, the 50 best bars in issue.
Now like I mean it's easy to

Google it and basically find
where they are and you know,

everybody all brand owners are
going to go there.

So do you find that, you know
this information is a bit like

misleading and probable actually
going in a more, a more granular

level.
You know, will actually give you

some surprises in in terms.
No.

Actually, I never thought about
actually go into this

neighborhood with this with this
other brand.

Maybe maybe I don't know, like,
with the with a more kind of

like, let's call it like a
hipster brand going into some

spots in Mayfair or, or vice
versa, you know, like bringing

let's say West London to, to the
east or east London to the west

or like, you know, blending into
this kind of like hybrid

solutions that are actually much
more Blue, Ocean strategy.

So so to say, Yeah.
Absolute.

I mean, I guess the, you know,
never using yourself as a case

study, I think that's so
important and just because in

your head, if I've got my brand
and I go to, you know, I'm a

know, I live in out, out in West
London.

So I'm very using very
london-based examples here, and

it's got lots of international
events, but West London for

every hasn't been here.
If you know, very, you know,

nice and Suburban quite leafy.
Lots of nice to have gentrified

pubs and just because your
product might fit well, there

doesn't mean In there might be
really interesting audience

somewhere else and I think that
are not using your own, I think

goes back to.
So you know, my terminals at

can't.
Um, so market research doesn't

have to be something that you
pay millions for it and

corporate level.
It's something where you can

just listen on a small scale and
if there is something

interesting there, then actually
write, how am I going to?

How am I going to double down on
that and I suppose those

examples with what you were
saying, even if it doesn't seem

like a natural fit because
certain things are saying it You

know, if you're listening to
people listening to what they

want that, you know, there might
be a huge opportunity there but

you're not going to find that
out without, you know, actually

speaking to people on the ground
without the speaking to the bar

owners and really understanding,
what what they're looking for

and then they can guide you
because ultimately, they can be

the ones who are purchasing it.
So yeah.

And actually, like be building
on this.

Like this is a nice bridge to my
put to my next question which is

like on.
I mean, you are a software

company.
If I may and, and you know, we

live in this era of like big
data and analytics and Analysis

and so on.
So I've got the feeling that

sometime sometimes like we tend
to actually track what's

possible to track rather than
what should be tracked, right?

So, it's a little bit of a kind
of like a vicious circle and a

catch-22 with you if you, if you
if I may.

And what do you think?
Let me know.

Angela, it doesn't have to be an
expensive research and so on,

like what's your experience in
working with smaller Brands?

What do you see in terms of, you
know, like data that people want

to have?
And also, in terms of like, for

example, I'm a big fan of this
kind of like Smalling, small

experiments in.
Okay, let go to Five bars

tested.
Go to another five bars, test

something opposite and then see.
What's what's working best?

Like, do do.
Do people do that?

Like you see that in your
everyday.

Day with Brands you work with or
yeah.

I mean I'm full I guess there
isn't one theme, I think we

unfortunately see two very
different ends of the spectrum

and it just it really depends on
the Personnel.

So we see, you know, we've we
see some people coming in and

actually when they if they
haven't had a platform where

they can easily record data,
sometimes people get very

excited and they're going.
Okay, have moved away from that,

my Excel spreadsheets.
This is so easy, just input the

data and they'll go crazy.
And suddenly, if it's either

them, or maybe it's there for,
you know, the rap they've just

hired and the rep, stood there
for 10 minutes, trying to fill

in all these data points and you
know, there stood the okay as

you know writing an essay about
what's just happened and with

that you then sort of have you
know paralysis by analysis.

You're just there's not there's
Nothing you're getting out of

it.
So, you know, data has to be,

has to be useful.
Being data-driven can be

something you can do on a small
scale, but you don't want to

overload it on the other other
end of the spectrum, sort of

going back to what I was saying
before.

I think there's a lot of
companies who are missing out on

some really interesting data
points, you know, if you, for

example, you know that if you're
going in and just trying to sell

but you're not recording, okay?
If you're stopped with a

distributor, let's say, If
you're just recording the bath

distributor, yes, I know a
stock.

What about the other ones?
And you might suddenly see a

really interesting Trend that
all of the bars that you're

going to have this particular
distributive they buy from.

But if you're not asking that
question, you'll never realize

that you should actually be
trying to sell to them.

And if you can, then turn around
and say to, you know, I think

the pitch to a lot of
Distributors.

Look how delicious our product
is, you know, you, but they've

got 1,000 other brands are
saying the same thing.

Whereas, if you can actually
have a simple data point, which

says, you know, hey, We've, you
know, we've just tried to wear

it.
We're doing direct sales to 100

venues, or maybe we've just
tried to sell 200 venues and

they really want to buy our
products, but they use you as a

distributor, here's the data
because we've recorded it

suddenly, you know, you're not,
you're getting, you're asking

them to take on board your
product by the data in front of

them, not just out of personal
preference, and it should be a

no-brainer.
So I think there's giving them

some reason to rub like the
yeah, giving you giving them

also, You know, like busy the
like a full package of customers

that are going to turn me in.
Margins for them, basically for

free under percent, you know,
it's going back to what we're

saying is, don't try and sell to
them.

You're literally telling them
how you're going to sell your

products.
You're giving them a list of

people.
You've already said, yes.

And I think, I think also with
the with the sort of their

collection of data, thinking a
bit, a bit sort of outside the

box as well, like, okay, if I'm,
if my product I didn't know you

could think of Cuisines and sort
of say work, you know, does this

work really well with exquisite
and, you know, try and do a bit

of a push because we're going to
trap.

We know that this is a, I think
I remember hearing you set say,

Okay, certain products are now
being eaten with, you know,

Mexican food, for example, which
is coming and can I or, I mean,

what I really likes the data
point, which if your customers

have started using is and I say
data point, this isn't the data

point, is just a question that
you can add on to your end of

your, the survey that you're
doing the venue which is

interesting fact about the
manager.

Now, if he's got he or she have
got, you know, thousands of

customers and hundreds of reps
come in through the door, just

walking in trying to just, you
know, either ordering or telling

them about the product, how are
you going to sort of stand out?

So we've had a few customers who
have this little question at the

end.
So next time you go in you can

now write I know who their
distributor is, I know which

competitors Stockton there.
I know what type of venue this

is but also I know that the fact
that they support Real Madrid or

that they you know she would She
went on holiday last week and

she's got two kids and you're
immediately cutting through and

you've got, you've got your
knowledge, you've got you built

up your actual personal
relationship and now you can

talk about the brand.
So yeah, that's a great, that's

a great point.
And also like there's this,

there's another point which is
like in terms of occasions or

category or categories that have
that I've noticed here because

for example, I when I go out in
the, in the, in the trade here

in Prague and, you know, I see a
lot of pubs, you know, this

Hospital like this.
Zeke Pops that where you go

there for beer but then of
course like they also have food

like that.
It's a bit of a it's the

equivalent of a British pub
basically sure.

Yeah.
And but then use you start to

see like a trend in terms of
like let's say do they list

bitters?
Do they least Rams or whiskies

and so on and and the occasion
sometimes it's very similar is

like I want to have a distillate
after dinner, you know or I want

to break in between the cob
couple of beers.

I want to have a hard liquor and
then I'm going I'm going to

order another beer and you know
sometimes what I see Brands not

doing is that they tend to think
in categories.

So I'm a whiskey brandy durman
Irish whiskey, I'm a scotch, I'm

an American whiskey.
I'm not competing with rum

because this is coach, you know,
I have a run brand and this is

you know like what has it got to
do with bitters, but you know,

if people are looking for
something like a digestive after

dinner, it doesn't have, you
know, it doesn't matter if it's

an Italian, mmm, Or if it's an
Irish whiskey, if it's a scotch,

or if it's a tequila, you know,
for them like what they're

looking into it, they're looking
into something that is quite

alcoholic and in, in Contents in
ABV, and they want to have it.

So they actually competing with
each other.

And if you get to that level,
that you were saying about

information about the owner, you
may think like okay actually

this is a pub manager, of
course, he's into into beer as a

main occasion, but is a big Ram.
Fun, and then you can see like,

looking at, I like to study the
back bar, for example, and then

see, like, okay, like domes Pub.
It's like it's this this beers

there and then that he's got
like a trams and one Irish

whiskey in one scotch and one
cognac, you know, and then you

can really see right away, okay?
This is, you know, it's exactly

the same as the pub next door.
But here there's a ram

opportunity because the guy is
into rum and he's going to Was

rum and maybe you know the
locals that are gravitating

around that place are probably
going to know.

Okay, dumb.
He knows a lot about Ram.

So let me ask him, you know,
because I want to buy a ram.

So if you don't capture that
kind of information, all these

let's say old way of segmenting
in terms of pubs bars

restaurants become Lost in
Translation. 100%.

Yeah, it's great.
You know, a great example and I,

you know, yes, yes.
Basically letting them write

your sales pitch, you know,
yourself.

Just letting them guide you and,
and I think s is funny.

We had the company was speaking
to and the guy who'd set it up.

He also runs some copies, just
starting his own drinks brand.

But he'd been on the other side
of the bar and he'd run his own

to cocktail bars and I made a
joke out our well, you probably

hate our software because, you
know, we're sending all these

salespeople in and there and he
went, no, no, no, I wish every

salesperson and I'm not doesn't
have to be ours, but, you know,

used something properly because
the amount of time.

I'm their walk in and they'll
just start telling me about

their product without having
understood what I want and what

I need.
And it doesn't take much to

understand that and I initially
asked those questions, but when

you next go back, you can have,
you know, you can know exactly

what it is and help and then
you're not wasting their time.

You know, you're not wasting
your own time so I think yeah

letting them write your sales
pitch is so important by just

observing and listening