007 | Farming Sales: how to drive sales velocity in bars after you sold the first bottle | Part 2/2 of the Interview with Mike McGrail from the Drinks Noise Podcast (Edinburgh, UK)

I mean, let's say we've built the awareness, we've been in, and actually we've managed to get the agreement from the bar manager to take stock. And I mean, are we expecting them to take a crate? Are we expecting them to take one bottle, two bottles? At what level should we feel confident? I think I know the answer, but it'd be great to hear it from you.

Of course. I mean, there's a few elements in that one that are interesting. First of all, I mean, all sales, especially in small brands, happen by bottle. First one would be one bottle. You'll like if you get like two, if they are confident, but most likely that's going be one bottle.

And you need to help them. I always say this a bit of a debatable way of saying it. I mean, I'm not first language English anyway. So it's like help them get rid of your brand.

You know

what I mean? It's a little bit pushy in that sense. It's a little bit like strange and daring, but that's ultimately what you want them to do. You know, you don't want them to fall in love with your bottle. You want them to get rid of your bottle as soon as possible so that they can order the second one.

So I always say sell the first botso with the second one in mind. Because the ultimate thing, you know, the last thing you want is that basically your brand stays there beautiful on the shelf, on the back bar, collecting dust because nobody knows it. The other challenge on that one is that I'm always a big fan of the smallest detail that may sound irrelevant, but actually it's very important. Like, for example, like if you ship, you know, the moment you ship a bottle or even a case at some point they will buy a case hopefully, you know, basically like follow-up on that delivery, you know, because otherwise they're going to put it in the seller. Maybe the person who is actually doing the purchase is not there because he's working in another bar or he's on holidays or for whatever reason, you know, start to shift a little bit later.

And basically your brand gets stuck in the cellar because nobody else knows about it. So there's, imagine there's five people working at the bar and only one person knows that bought your products, which is a new product, nobody knows about it. And sometimes, and I've seen it happening, like they leave it in the cellar even because it's like, okay, that must be Mike's special bottle that, you know, he maybe got it as a gift, you know, maybe it's a sample. We're not actually selling it. It's not on the menu.

It's not, you know, like it's not even in the inventory. So let's leave it there. Then maybe you're on holidays for a week, you know, and then I expect them to sell it because I say okay, I've shipped it last week, so of course like they must have sold something and then maybe I send a friend of mine or have a drum there and that's like, no, I've never heard of this brand, never had it. And it's actually in the seller and nobody knows about it. And this happens much more often than we actually think.

And we take it for granted and we say, come on, like this is so silly, like it cannot be the case. But if you look at it, actually, this is the smallest details are the stuff that actually make a brand tick and sell very often.

Yeah, you're not going to build a brand and create depletions from the seller. That's for sure. I love that, but following up once it's been delivered, go and make sure it's on display. Again, probably have that discussion with a bartender about the bottle, how has it been selling? Because I guess one of the big huge things you're always trying to do is take it beyond that so that if, for example, somebody walks up to the bar and says, I'd like a whiskey please to the bartender and the bartender says, well, do you know what whiskey?

And they don't, which does happen, then you want to be the brand at the front of that person's mind to say, well, why don't you try this brand? It's just new in, but I guess that again, to build that relationship and that trust is not going to happen overnight.

Absolutely, absolutely. And to build on what you're saying, it's also like a big game is on the selling story that you're building because you need to build the, let's say, taste profile of your whisky so that actually like, you know, you can put the foot in the door and then you're like, okay, my whisky is for people that want to have, I don't know, like a subtle peat or a very high level of peat or it's, you know, like different kind of elements in the taste profile already, so that when the bartender is going to ask you what do you want? Do you want an Irish whiskey or a scotch? Do you like it pitted? What do you want?

Like a blended whiskey, a single malt and so on. You actually have a very clear way of explaining to the salespeople down to the bartender actually like what is the taste profile that you want to go for? Because you cannot be a jack of all trades with a whisky or with a gin or with anything. You cannot just build it on the novelty. It's like, try this whisky because it just got in, you know, last week and this is the latest novelty that we're having.

Because otherwise then in three weeks time, then you're not the novelty anymore. So you really need to build a path in very simple language that can be translated to the salesperson and to the bartender. Because let's not forget that most likely brands are going to be sold indirectly with wholesalers. So you are not the actual person that will sell your brand while you reach scale, because I mean, you cannot multiply yourself and you don't have ubiquity. So you need to be able to explain it to your people and to your partners on how to sell it.

Yeah, that very, very clear and clean proposition throughout the chain. Very, very vital. Something that I've seen happen a lot is a new brand on the block will go and spend quite a lot of money on things like beer mats or branded t shirts that have their new whiskey brand smashed all over the front of them. And they spend the money upfront and then funnily enough, the bar that's just agreed to actually put one bottle on the shelf doesn't really want to put their branding on their staff. I'm assuming this is not something in the early stages you would recommend people do.

No, not at all. I mean, like I actually don't recommend doing it even later on, like I'm a bit of a minimalist in my marketing approach. Again, like it's a matter of like, would you want people, you know, like why should I wear your t shirts with your brand name on it? If I have no idea what your brand stands for and I don't even know if I actually like it. And especially like, you know, all these bars, they've got so many friends with brands, you know, that, you know, they're going to look like a Christmas tree, you know, if they start wearing caps and hats and pins and whatever.

But I think that is a little bit of a legacy of the, I call it the 90s and early 2000s marketing, where basically like all big brands were doing that, you know, like the Canon, the T shirt Canon or Canon T shirt

like in You the

know, like it's this kind of a marketing approach that is like a bombardment of messaging rather than actually like building really brands bottom up in a nice way. So it's really like be consistent and be, you know, own your niche. That's what I always say, you know, own your niche and then you grow from within that niche because there's a lot of people that like that taste profile of your whisky. And there's a lot of people that like what you stand for, the purpose that you bring into life, don't know, like if it's like a sustainability, you know, like different kinds of elements that you're bringing in, you know, and then there will be a lot of people that actually will relate to that and then will like it and will keep on drinking your product without having the brand on their face.

Yeah, branded tattoos. I don't think we're going to get that.

Although I've seen a few people in my previous life on, you know, having brands that I was selling on a tattoo on a forearm and that bit was too much for me.

Yeah, I've seen monkey shoulder tattoos actually, you know, the three monkeys, it does make quite a cool tattoo, I suppose. Okay, so let's take the scenario of we have one or two bottles in a bar and it's been there for a little while and actually it's not selling. What can I do to try and get that bar to make a bigger deal of trying to recommend it? I mean, is it just a case of maintaining the relationship or are there certain trigger points that you think you should one month then go and say, what do you think the problem is? Or, and I don't have the experience to nail down those, but I know you've got to make sure you're also not appearing to be desperate, right?

Absolutely, of course. And this is a very interesting point because let's say the first thing I would say is that when you start selling your product, will start I always have this thing, like I have a nice drawing that I put on LinkedIn every once in a while that it's, always say one case in one bar is better than six bottles in six bars. And it's ultimately one case anyway. But it makes a difference when you actually sell one case in one bar. And what I mean by that is that when you start selling, it will be natural to actually do the one bottle in each bar, because that's how you start to gain distribution.

But then you need to be able to analyse those sales and you can use like a CRM system, you know, you can start from Excel. But have something even if it's pen and paper to really understand, okay, who do I sell to? And who do I resell to? Because I always say, first time buyer is not really a customer. It's a trialist.

And then if they buy again, then they are really a customer. And so you need to be able to identify who are the, let's say, the lost battles in which is actually useless to go. So it's like, okay, them collect dust there. Luckily, whiskey doesn't have a shelf life issue like I had with beer. So, you know, ultimately they can keep it there until then they will actually start to get some rotation.

But then when you actually want to try and improve your rotation in those bars, in a bar, my advice is always like make the numbers very tangible and doable for that bartender. So what I mean by that is that you know, going in and asking them, can you actually sell more of my whiskey? You know, doesn't really work because it's too blurry in their mind. What does it mean? Like, you want me to order a case?

Or do you want me to, you know, finish one bottle in one night? What do you want me to do? Kind of thing. But then if you make it achievable because then you say actually, you know, it looks like that you are selling one bottle per month, so to say, and then it's like, what would it take you to end it in a week or in two weeks? You know, like try to make small steps that the person sees as achievable.

So I always use this example on cocktails, know, like with when I work with US brands, say usually like a bottle is a 75 CL, so it's like 12 ish serves in cocktail. And then I say, okay, if they, if you think that they are selling half a bottle per week, try to get them to sell one bottle per week, but don't ask them just to finish the bottle, ask them, it's basically like six drinks more per week, which is actually one drink more per night. You know, what could we do to help you do one extra drink per night? And then all of a sudden, like they enter a different kind of problem solving attitude and say: actually hang on a minute, do I not even sell two drinks of that brand per night? You know, of course I'll fix it, you know, I'll put it on a menu or I'll do something about it and I'll keep it more, you know, fresher in my, let's say, share of mind or I will talk to my team about it.

And then you start to have a bit of a conversation them so that it becomes more achievable rather than actually going in and say, you sell more? You know, can you order a case? Can you do me a favor? Kind of thing. Because a lot of the issue that you're mentioning, very often it happens from this kind of favour mentality and relationship that it's unfortunately like the flip side of our industry, you know, because it's a lot about people and connections and friends.

And all of a sudden it often it becomes like can you actually buy a couple of bottles, you know, I'm struggling this month, you know, like can you make an order? And then they say yeah, of course, I mean, can make an order. And then basically just like stays there collecting dust on the shelf because they didn't really need it. So then, you know, sometimes that's why I say like you need to identify what is the winning horse and what is the kind of like dead horse in the race. Because sometimes it's just like a dead bar will never get rid of your brand, sorry.

You know, it will take them one year to deplete those two bottles and, you know, let's face it, that's how it's going to be.

Yeah, and then eventually they need that space for something else they want to rotate and then you're gone. Absolutely. Chris, honestly, so much incredible advice there and I could talk to you all evening about this, it's so fascinating. Everybody listening will have learned so much, I'm sure. A couple of questions I wanted to end with, and this is triggered by something I saw you commenting on LinkedIn today, and this will put a bit of a timestamp on this episode, which you're told never to do in a podcast, but we've got this Belvedere vodka campaign that's launched I with

thought this was coming.

With Daniel Craig, okay? And it's had a lot of attention for either the right or wrong reasons, but Belvedere is a success as far as they're concerned, ultimately already because of that. What brands do you think are doing great work from a kind of a campaign perspective right now? Because it's all interconnected. We need brands to be doing the fantastic, like we were talking about at the start, creating all the noise so that that bleeds out into the consumer, but also into the industry.

So who do you think is doing a great job right now?

This is a good one. Let me take a second to think about it. Like I saw something from Cointreau recently And there was I can't remember the name of the person like it's I think it's a celebrity or somebody who's, who's making margarita cocktails at home with Cointreau.

Okay.

It's I think it's aired only in The US probably and of course on digital. And what I liked about that was that it was so connected to their occasion that they are going for because of course Cointreau is a crucial ingredient for margaritas. And I really liked their way of saying, okay, actually, we're not talking about, you know, provenance, about France, about liquors and about, you know, we're just going to talk about what is it for, you know. It's made for margaritas and they made a very nice setup. Think it's like, I don't know, like a villa of this person that is inviting I can't remember who is in it, but there were some famous people in it.

And they basically like invites people over and then he makes, he or she, I can remember, like make a drink, make a dinner and basically start making margaritas with Cointreau. And I liked that it was so clear how to make the connection with drinking occasion. So it's like, whether I drink a margarita in a bar, or if I want to make margaritas at home, I know what to do with that bottle, which is probably like, it's an issue that a lot of people have had, like having a bottle of control, you know, in their home bar without knowing what to do with them because maybe they were drinking gin and sonic and you like you have it there, it's like, what do I do with it? But now it's so clear that you can actually use it for margaritas. So what I mean by that is I always like the communication that is so clearly connected to a consumption occasion, what you're saying to the brand team, to what you're saying to the sales team, to what you're saying to the wholesalers, sales team, you know, like target this kind of occasion, target this kind of menus, kind of cocktails and so on.

Rather than just building this brand imagery that is like, I don't know, like sipping on a riverboat in the Lake Lake Como.

You really don't like these boats in Lake Como?

No, I mean I

feel bad for the boats.

No, because for me, like when these brands make life so aspirational, but in a kind of like bad way? Because it's like, I'm never going to afford having a boat trip on a riverboat and I'm never gonna drink anything on that riverboat, most probably. So why can't you make it aspirational while making it real and something that actually I can do next weekend? You know, so this is my personal take. I know that brands need to create aspirational imagery and so forth.

But there's a little bit of of copycats everywhere. I mean, the agave spirits, you know, mezcal brands, tequila brands, most likely they all have the same imagery, you know, with the celebrity hugging the farmer, hugging the mezcalero, hugging the, you know, like the, you know, it's always the same kind of imagery that they're playing with without explaining, okay, what do I do with this brand? How can I use this brand in my everyday life? Kind of thing. Of course, like acknowledging that it comes from certain origins and certain places far away, but let's make it simple and redoable kind of thing.

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think there's too many cliches in drinks marketing visuals that just carry on regardless. Yeah, I mean, anything agave based right now is, I'll have to say, I really do like the Dos Home Race stuff with the two guys from Breaking Bad. I like their Instagram account because actually it really makes those two guys seem really approachable and friendly and kind of intertwined with everything the brand means. Could all be bullshit, but it's nice, obviously they're investors and it's a nice link up there and they've done it in the right way, think.

Absolutely.

And just for those who are listening, I'm going to check out that Quantro campaign and I'll put it in the email that accompanies this episode for you all. Chris, honestly, do not want to take up any more of your time other than to let you tell the listeners how they can learn more from you, how they can get in touch if they feel like they need your advice in a professional way. So this is your time to plug everything you do.

Thank you, you, Mike. I appreciate it. So you can find me on Twitter mafedrinks, on LinkedIn, ChrisMaffeiro, and most importantly on newsletter, which goes a little bit more into details, which is called winningwithdrinks.com and that's where you can subscribe to the newsletter and it comes every weekend, one topic per weekend and you can find me there.

Brilliant. Just actually a quick question on that. I mean, a newsletter like that so can valuable, but a big commitment. How do you find kind of keeping that going?

That's a challenge. I mean, I ask my wife when I get Saturday mornings locked in my studio at home. I mean, it's really like commitment. I thought about it for long before starting it because I want to do it. So even if I'm travelling, you know, I schedule it in advance.

Sometimes there's a little bit of a delay like last Sunday. But it's all about the system, you know, like I've built this system to really get into the content. That's the same thing that I do on LinkedIn. So again, it's a learning for brands as well. So ones that you have your Instagram on or your content creation, you you need to stick to it and you need to deliver because people don't care if you're on holidays or if you're sick, you know, like they expect that to read that content all the time from you.

Don't let them down kind of thing.

Yeah, consistency is key. I love it. Okay.

Absolutely.

Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for your time, Chris. I'm sure everybody will have had so much value listening from that and I certainly have loved the conversation. So thanks a lot and hope to speak to you soon.

Likewise, Thank you. Thank you.

Thanks so much again to Chris for that incredibly insightful interview. I just love the way he delivers his advice. There's no nonsense there. It's all fully practical and applicable and succinct. Love it.

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Apologies. Thanks for listening, hope to hear from you soon. Have a great day whatever you may be doing.