018 | Back Bars & Cocktail Menus: from being visible to driving rotation | Part 2/2 with Adrián Michalčík, Global Winner Diageo WorldClass 2022 (Oslo, Norway)

Hi and welcome to the Mafair
Drinks Podcast.

I'm Chris Mafair, founder of
Mafair Drinks, where we provide

the nonsense approach to
building drinks brands from the

bottom up.
I will be your host and in each

episode I will interview a
drinks builder from the drinks

and hospitality ecosystem.
In episode 17 and 18, I had the

honor of interviewing Adrian
Mikhail Cheek.

He's the global winner of the
Idea World Class 2022 and Global

Top Six in 2016 is the Director
of Mixology at Pier 42 in Oslo.

He has an incredible drinks
experience in various markets.

I hope you will enjoy our chat.
Remember that this is a two-part

episode, so if you liked it feel
free to listen to both part one

and two of our chat.
Talking about this like I mean

this is a very interesting, I
like to gain as much knowledge

from you as possible because it
is really beneficial for for me

first and and for our listeners.
But like I, I usually call it

the the sellout ladder like the
steps to get to to selling and

you mentioned the brands get
listed and now basically that's

the first step and now you're in
like I always talk about hunting

and farming, how do you sell the
first bottle to Adrian and now I

would like Adrian to sell more
of my brand.

And usually I mean like the,
let's say the Holy Grail for

companies is the Trio now the
the back bar, the menu and the

cocktail menu and how I get into
this and the listing and in my

experience, I mean the first two
are a little bit easier like

back bar probably there are
higher chances, but then it's a

little bit tougher to get more
presence, right.

So what's your experience on
this?

So like.
If you have like some new brand

which we have listed and believe
in that product, we want to use

that.
So then we are creating some

cocktail with this product and
it's not just standing on a

shelf.
Then also if we see like active

approach from the brand
representative, so of course

like then we have like more kind
of personal connection and we

are motivated to use this
product even more than other

parties.
Of course, like financial

support, we also are creating
the drinks with the

storytelling, and we love to
serve this cocktail, not just as

a liquid.
In the glass but build around

also with the way of serving.
So for example we need to buy

some nice glassware, we want to
execute like liquid on the

highest level.
So the modern trends in our

industry they require also to do
sometimes a modern like

equipment for example.
Yeah, so we need to buy all of

those things.
So if you have like a brand

which is like good quality and
there is a personal approach and

attention from the distributor
to our team and then.

They are able to offer us some
financial support and support us

with the development of new
flavors to follow the modern

trends and create like product
which is trendy for example.

So then of course like that's
extra motivation for us because

we will say no to brand which is
high quality and someone is

visiting you at the bar on a
weekly basis and he is giving

you money to buy, send, refuse
for example.

So like of course you are very
motivated to use this product,

right.
I think like maybe this is the

way if someone wants to sell
some brand into the bar.

These are kind of points which
we as a bartenders are looking

for here in the northern
countries is also a little bit

different situation because here
they the brands, they can't

promote alcohol, they can't
create a compound.

So they have some extra spare
budgets which they can maybe

spend to bars or give to bars.
And we also listing products on

a for example signature cocktail
list with of course some price,

you know.
So we're trying to also get the

budget for us that we can follow
the trends or create something

extra.
In a liquid form work for our

guests.
So if there is a chance to get

the final support, of course
it's just the plus you know for

us about vendors, nice if I take
a step back now like and focus

on the back bar now like there's
a lot of push, like we know the

companies I work with and worked
for to get on the back bar.

Now we need to get a phasing on
the back bar like visible

distribution, it's called and so
on.

Do you think in your experience
is that enough to create some

rotation?
Do in your experience consumer

actually look at the back bar to
choose what to?

Drink or how does it?
Work.

Yeah, I would say like big bar,
it's kind of showroom of the

brands.
Definitely people there are many

times like looking into big bar
through us about and there's you

know, and they are like looking
for some cool product which

maybe they know or they might be
looking for something new for

example.
Yeah, I saw people picking up

the product, the base.
On the beauty of the package,

you know, like, oh, this bottle
looks cool.

I like to have a show there.
What is that whiskey?

I don't drink whiskey, but I
will actually take one because

it has nice bottling, right?
So I think like, of course it's

important, you know, because
many people are trying new

things and they are like seeking
for something or they.

Are basically more kind of
conservative that they know one

brand and they want to drink it
all life, you know and if they

say see it on the shelf like
they automatically pick it up.

I think like there is definitely
a power and a visibility for

sure.
However, there are also some

bars which for example are not
showing the brands.

I saw the bars which are for
example rebottling the spirits

into neutral looking or clear
transparent bottles only.

So it really depends on the bar,
but we have the shelves at the

at our bar and I think it can
also tell us a lot about the

bar, you know like which kind of
products you have there.

If there are more exclusive
products.

For example at our bar we have H
statements like 15 plus for the

whiskeys.
You will not find 12 years old

whiskey in our bar or even
younger.

Yeah.
So it's like kind of more

exclusive and also how clean can
be big bar, you know how the

bartenders can take care about?
This can also tell you a lot

about the bar.
I traveled in a couple of

countries in Asia and that's
like funny thing that speaking

about the modern trends which we
touched on, I saw the bars which

they have like growth of up for
a distilling straight behind the

bar now super trending in Asia.
And there you have a shelf above

where you have open vermouths
you know which are crying like

please put me into fridge.
I wanted to see also your

reaction on this one because.
You are Italian person and you

know the vermouth definitely was
opening like the wine is alive

though, like they need to be
stored in a fridge, right.

But you know that's that's it
like that.

I saw also this on a big bar
somehow and yeah like that's

again the thing that we as a
bartender.

So we definitely should be
hungry for improvement and the

knowledge of modern technologies
but we definitely should also

know the basics and I don't try
to overstep and take care about

about all the products in in
proper way.

And like I mean coming from beer
like I I discussed this many

times with people is that I I
was trained in rotation because

of of course like beer as a chef
life like talking about your

very smooth example.
And so for me was always like,

OK, I want to sell my beer brand
where I know it will sell out

because otherwise they are going
to throw away the keg and or

even worse, like, you know,
serving it even if it's

suboptimal if if not, you know,
like dangerous for help.

So for me it was always like,
hey, I I sell to Adrian if I

know that Adrian is selling out
because I don't want to just

sell 1 bottle to to Adriana.
But in spirits, talking to a lot

of salespeople, I have the
feeling that there is less focus

on this and more focus on, OK
Adrian has put my brand there.

It's a nice showroom.
As you said, you know, my

bottle, the Mafeo, whatever
drink is behind the bar is

behind the back of Adrian.
So it it's an advertising shell

for me and I don't really care
if he sells it or not, you know,

I just want to be there.
So the tendency that I see is

that people put much more effort
in distribution taking you know,

gaining 10-50 hundred Adrians
without really spending time

into working with you to really
say Adrian, like how can we grow

the sales and not letting that
the both.

So getting dusty on the shelf,
right what what's your

experience on this like from
salespeople, from the spirits

industry?
No, speaking about this,

definitely it will be Mafeo,
Amaro or Bitra, right?

To be able be on the shelf
because vermin will be in the

fridge.
I'm thinking about.

I'm actually thinking about
that.

I never.
I never said it to you.

But I have a I I haven't.
I have some.

Ideas for the future?
So I think like if you once you

will make your brand maybe like
some nice Amara or someone, I

think that you will be much more
focused also to to motivate me

or bartenders in the bars where
your product will be.

You will probably not do that
only for visibility to have just

like bottle there because that's
kind of approach which.

It's like kind of chance which
is not really used properly.

I think like visibility is one
thing like to have a bottle

there but still like bar it.
It's a business you know when

everyone want to do sales right,
everyone want to sell more and

more.
So I think like with the active

approach, if you will be coming
to bars and you will be giving

the new examples to bartenders
how they can use this product,

how maybe versatile can this
product be and why they should

use this product.
So then you can push on your

cells and you can support it.
Some brands maybe they want to

have just the visibility, but I
think that's kind of why, you

know because as I said like it's
a business and everyone want to

create the numbers.
I think it's very important to

of course get on the shelf like
visibility, it's one thing, but

then motivate people to work
with the product and also

actively offer that product to
the guest.

And as I said like this is
creating extra if the guest like

loves that product he might buy
that even like in the shop which

is again like growing on the
numbers on the off trade market

right your.
Friend and then maybe there is a

party at home and he will buy
the bottle and he will say okay

like this.
Amaro is actually amazing guys,

did you try it and they will say
they will try and they will like

it.
So they might buy the bottle

again and you can basically with
the active approach, starting

maybe with the bartender and
visibility on the shelf, if you

have this active approach, you
can create much more of sales

not just at the bar but also
besides bar, right so.

I think to be active, it pays
off on all the adults,

definitely nice, always great
advices like that's another gold

nugget there for people who
start and not to focus on The

Truman Show as I call it and but
to really move.

Absolutely.
But like you know, industry is

all about the people, right.
So I think it need to be kind of

personal, you know that's also
goal of the bartending to be

personal, not to just show off,
you know And with the brands I

see that as the same, you know,
like if someone really cares

about the product and he wants
to make this.

Product successful, this is
super important to try to become

a personal and to really
convince people to use that

product to really make them
believe in that product.

And it can, as I said, it can
create the other way for the

sales on trade or off trade
markets.

Yeah.
And actually, like this is a

great point that you're raising
because I have a bit of a, let's

say, let's call it like a
controversial take on about how

personal this industry is not.
First of all, I agree with you

totally that it's a people
business and we all, you know,

together in this journey like
it.

We are ultimately in a
socializing kind of environment

and industry.
But sometimes I feel that from

brand perspective is a little
bit overrated.

No, it's like, oh, Adrian, of
course is my best friend is a

friend of mine.
Yeah, of course, like anyone

hugging and kissing, you know,
when we meet.

But then ultimately the space is
limited, right?

Like so I see a lot of people
that launch.

I mean, you raise my example as
a potential, you know, brand

owner, future brand owner.
You know, I feel like a lot of

people get into that trap,
right, because they say, OK, OK,

Chris is very well connected.
He can launch his brand any day

and he has a lot of friends in
the industry.

So it will work.
But ultimately, if I take a

brand like, let's say a bar like
yours, I always give this

example I I did it in a in a
presentation.

I had that bar convent last year
and I said, ultimately each

bartender or bar owner has got
50 friends that own a brand and

they've got 30 spots in the back
bar and 10 spots on the menu.

You know, so there's either 20
or even worse like than 40

people that are out of the game.
No.

So what's your take in this and
what's your advice on relying

on?
Because I'm a big advocate of

creating a commercial system
that enables you to add on the

personal touch, because personal
is a start, but it's not enough

for me.
So what's what's your take?

And feel free to challenge me.
You know like that's I think of

course become personal but also
stay active.

You know if you have a product
and if you have out of 49

products which possibly might
end up on the shelf.

I think this is open game for
active approach innovations and

come up always with the new
ideas.

As we spoke about the guests
that this is up to bartenders

where they will be probably
drinking next year and a year

after.
And also brands can maybe come

up with a new new things, you
know and then become better than

the other brands and get the
spot on the shelf and maybe on

the menu or create the cells.
So I think like to become

personal, stay active and come
with the new ideas and

innovation.
That's probably the other thing

because there are many brands
which are here with us like for

decades, many people, they are
drinking it from the habits, OK.

I always drink Martini based on
this gene for example, but also.

The generation of people will be
not here forever.

So what we need to do is like
actively push even for the

brands which are here with a
longer history.

You know many, many brands, they
are doing that actively.

They are coming with innovation,
they are reflecting on the

modern trends and they are like
trying to show.

With the way to consumers or
bartenders, how to use this

product in a new way or new
light, you know, So I think this

might be a good tip for being
successful, you know in a body

industry definitely always
trying to find a new ways how to

use that product and always come
up with the innovation.

So definitely stay active.
I mean, I love this thing like

the rather than just being
connected, like being active

because that's the ultimate
thing because I also see brands

that you know, like they're
collecting dust for like they

became like vintage brands on a
back bar and nobody is ever,

ever going there.
And to this last point that you

raised about the versatility of
the product and being in line

with the newest trends.
I work with a lot of companies

and the bigger brands, they tend
to to have like a drink

strategy, you know, like this
brand goes in whatever Margarita

this brand go, you should drink
it in the Negroni.

This one, you should drink it
with tonic.

They show you should drink it
with ginger ale or whatever.

That's your level of bartending
and mixology.

If I were you, I would be like
what you want.

You know, like I'm let me do my
job and I will decide how to

treat this product.
So what's your experience and

what's your take on when
somebody comes in and say okay

this product goes with this and
this and this?

Because there's a thin line
between them recommending and

dictating.
It's like.

Not, yeah, that's something like
if some brand representative is

coming to the bar and it's like
saying my product is actually

the best, right?
Like if you have this kind of

liquor always just that in this
cocktail or this spirit always

used with the tonic, for
example.

But I think.
I see that there's an incorrect

way, kind of as you said, of
dictating and telling straight

to bartender, you should do this
one.

Yeah.
If I'm representing some brand,

I will try to find a different
way for this one because it's

very limiting to just like given
one advice like this spirit

should go with the tonic and
that's it, right?

From my point of view, if I have
a chance to represent some

brand, I will try to create many
different ways how to use this

product and then.
Present these two bartenders and

give them free hands and pick
you know like how they want

really to work with this
product.

I think it's all about the
knowledge because if someone is

saying right my product should
be just drunk with the tonic,

then I think like that person
has not really deep knowledge or

is not really creative, you
know?

So then maybe the brands they
should start collaborating with,

the people which are visioners,
has a knowledge they are

creative and then for example.
We did this project with a

Singleton whiskey where I have
been showcasing like how whiskey

can be versatile.
You know, like we we know the

whiskey spirit just from the
world of like serving the need

or on the rocks or maybe an
oldfashioned or Manhattan,

right?
But my target has been to

showcase that we can drink
whiskey even in a different way.

So for example, combined with
the floral notes and carbonated,

there's a sparkling appetitive
cocktail.

Yeah, and we can do that.
We can create something nice and

silky with the whiskey, or we
can in the whiskey.

We have plenty of different
notes from fruity across natty.

We can go almost to mami many,
many different flavor profiles.

So.
If the brand really wants to

push for the sales and come up
with something new for

bartenders, I will definitely
see as a while called some

collaboration with a person who
is creative, who has enough of

knowledge and will showcase to
bartenders or to people in the

general that this product can be
used not just in one way as a

high ball with toy, but it can
be used in like 10 different

ways and you make your choice
and I think this is also making.

People much more comfortable
because they have an option,

they have a choice right.
So they don't feel like extra

push to use this product only in
that one and you always need to

use this product in this cocta
because it's the best you know.

So this is not the correct way
how to do upselling and how to

present your product.
In my eyes correct way will be

like we have this product.
We believe that this is great

quality and it can be used in.
These ten ways at least.

Of course, if you come up with
something new, you can drink it

like in whichever way you like
it, because it's always your

drink.
But I'm giving you like a pallet

of the opportunities how to use
this product and you make your

pick, so then you feel like
okay.

I can trust in this product
because I can really drink it in

way how I like it.
And you can see you are not just

taught to drink it always this
way, you know?

So this is how I will probably
work with the product.

If I can represent any kind of
brand.

I'm just thinking like where
let's say do you draw the line

because I see a lot of brands
that are going a little bit, you

know they're taking a little bit
too far now.

Like we've seen the Spritz
trend, you know the gin and

tonic trend and so on.
So I feel every single brand is

trying to do tonic, ginger ale,
Spritz or whatever now whatever

the category is.
And as you said, I mean coming

from Italy, for me, Spritz,
there's only a few kind of like

products that can make a Spritz.
But sometimes I feel that

marketing department of
companies are taking it a little

bit too easy that they say Okay
Spritz is working, let's do a

Spritz with this brand and then.
You know, like, I don't know now

I'm just made it up like a
whiskey spritz, you know, it

would be a little bit odd for me
now.

So where would you draw the line
on or your advice to to brand

owners or ambassadors?
Yeah, to be kind of versatile

and try to come up with a new
things.

Of course it's it's great, but
it can be too much sometimes.

Yeah, the lines in, in my eyes
they will be probably.

Set by the quality and flavor
profile of the product in

general also like if you're
speaking now about using the

brand or the liquid in the
cocktail, I think like as a

bartender I see that we always
trying to understand the brand,

understand the liquid.
And then support or build

around.
Of course, if you have a

whiskey, then probably we don't
do spritz, but we can always do

some carbonated cocktail.
We can use that in a way like

some Daisy or sweet sour top up
with the bubbles, for example.

Yeah, so that's a little bit
different, you know.

So I would say it's very
important.

To have a knowledge about the
brand, don't overstep like

completely that.
Try to convince people that you

can drink whiskey with pink
grapefruit lemonade, because of

course you can find their citrus
in also because that's why

right?
Like you don't have really

citrus in also and whiskey, but
you always with enough of

knowledge you can always find
the way how to incorporate for

example notes of grapefruit.
But we need like to kind of

connect grapefruit and whiskey
with a breach of the other

flavor.
This is exactly the way how the

chefs there are working.
Putting two things together

which you will never say like
that they can go together but

they are connected across across
the one extra flavor which is

the middle flavor is matching
whiskey and middle flavor is

matching also the pink
grapefruit.

Yeah.
So you can always kind of

connect it, but you need to have
really great knowledge and

understand the product, you
know.

So I would say where the lines
are in this age like it's very

hard to say about the, but I
think like the quality of the

product and understanding.
Of the product can give us maybe

the borders which we can maybe
get close to border with not

knowledge.
If we cross this border, we'll

look probably stupid and I think
we need to have knowledge.

If we work with whatever,
knowledge is the king.

Otherwise it's just like
improvising and so on.

And I'm always talking about
having a target occasion for

brands.
I always have these examples

like I mean Aperol with the
Spritz or Campari with the

American and then they grow like
let's say they became famous

with one target occasion, but
like we also talked, spoke about

the versatility and so on.
So what would you recommend?

Like to, let's say, pick out of
the, let's call it the ten

option like you mentioned
before.

You know, pick the one or two to
become famous for and push and

then still give room for
alternatives.

Or because sometimes I feel that
people want to be a Jack of all

trades, like they want to feed
every occasion.

This one you can drink it before
dinner, after dinner, during

dinner, when you go to sleep,
like it's like, OK, but give me

a hook to have an idea.
Now what's?

Your view of like with the
brands we are trying of course

to create image, right?
This is something what I will be

focused for, probably that if I
have like a product I will

probably do like my peak one or
two peaks, where to use that,

when to drink it and so on.
And try to build strongly about

this one.
Try to build image and DNA of

the product in general.
Of course then, like I will try

to uncover as many
possibilities.

For usage of the product.
But then I will just leave it

probably up to guess.
I will just try to probably push

for one or two drinks based on
my spirit and build a kind of

image around this one to pick up
like 1-2 strong things and push

for this one.
Give the opportunities to people

to maybe use that product in
different ways or occasions.

But then don't try to kind of
convince people that yeah, you

can drink it morning and evening
and during the night and it's

perfect also during the mood,
you know, So that that sounds a

bit silly and like too much, you
know, like too big push.

And I I truly believe that the
products has a bigger power if

people they will find out
there's beauty and they will

start believing in the product
by themself.

You know if you go around and
you're saying like this product

is the best one.
So then you might actually

create a opposite effect that
people will hate it and they

will not believe in the product
at all, right?

So give people like 3 hands and
let them decide.

Nice, nice, nice.
Last points that I have is that

we touched upon the cocktail
menu, you know, and I've seen

two worlds in the on trade
business.

That's the more you know
influential outlets and the top

outlet like where you work and
where you worked in the past and

then the more kind of like
average bars, mainstream bars

and so on.
What is your experience on when

brands get on the cocktail menu
and they manage as we discussed

to to get there.
I've seen in some places there's

a, there's a branded menu,
brands are mentioned on the menu

and in some other places brands
are not mentioned on the menu.

You know and I I tend to see
that it's easier to see it in

let's say more mainstream bars.
You know that because the best

bars like they don't actually
want to mention brands or what's

what's your take and also like
to manage expectation of brand

owners that are always pushing
like I I need you to put the

brand on the menu and then it's
like OK, I got I managed to get

listed with my brand in Adrian's
bar.

He made the cocktail with my
brand but he doesn't want to

mention the brand.
You know, like people will know,

he will say to people when they
order, but he doesn't want to

mention my brand, so.
What's your take on this kind of

look like?
I of course understand that

everyone want to be super
visible, right?

I feel it like it's a quite big
push if someone is telling me

really like not just use this,
use this brand and it is not

enough like to just speak about
that or have it written on the

menu.
But you need to run there around

the world with a bottle in the
hand and like tell everyone that

you have been using this one.
I believe like the brands which

kind of understands the game and
they believe in this product

they really don't need.
To ask for these kind of favors

from from people, if we as a
bartender believe in that

product will be of course
presenting it.

We'll make sure that the brand
is visible somehow.

But extra push from brands to to
us, I think it can create like

just opposite effect, You know,
like it should be natural, you

know that we want to present the
product and we believe in the

product.
So if I'm representing brand, I

will try natural trust in the
people.

Better than to push for that
massively and maybe even risk

losing these bartenders because
you pushed too much, right?

I think the natural way has its
own beauty, always.

Absolutely.
One very last question, you are

having a great career.
What would you give as an advice

to people that want to say
follow your footsteps or or that

they're starting to entering in
the industry now and they see

you as an inspiration?
Like what?

Many people are texting me and
then I just started with

bartending and what is your
advice exactly or what I should

do?
And I'm always trying to answer

to everyone, Of course, we are
human beings and as you

mentioned, like this industry is
all about the people.

Our first advice is stay human
being and try to understand

really that this is all about
the people, so.

You need to also love people to
be able to to work in the

hospitality industry.
So the first thing is like be

human being and love people.
Then of course the second thing,

we spoke about it today many
times.

Try to be personal.
Try to be present for people,

because people can also feel you
if you're serving some guests,

if you're really there, or if
you are doing that just for

money and you basically don't
like the job or you don't really

mean what you doing or what
you're saying you know so.

So be human being, try to become
personal and definitely be

present.
You know, give people attention

and then of course it's the
knowledge.

And knowledge is giving you
confidence.

So then many times like people
without the knowledge, they are

kind of under stress, right?
They don't know how to answer

the questions and so on.
So they are not really able to

show there's real personality
and give theirs best.

So knowledge is giving you the
confidence and then you don't

really need to think like what
to answer and you can.

Showcase yourself in the best
possible way.

These things are advices for the
bartenders.

Always of course stay hungry for
knowledge, try to improve on

daily basis because that's the
thing.

Also with the competitions which
we mentioned today, we don't

compete against the other
bartenders, but we compete

against ourself.
This is how I saw also the

competition in my case I I came
back to global stage to to try

to beat myself, became better
than I have been there last time

and.
That's whatever you do.

Like whichever kind of job, you
should have a vision of becoming

better than you have been
yesterday.

This is the evolution, this is
life about in my eyes.

But yeah, for the bartenders,
definitely.

I understand that this is the
industry of the people.

So be hospitable, be present,
love people and then again as

much as you can of knowledge
because that can give you the

opportunity to really shine and
be present for people there for

100% beautiful words.
Like it's really helpful and I

hope people will take it and
really listen to it because I

see.
Remember when I joined Sabie

Miller back in the days?
There was an old gentleman

working with Cognac that had the
speech and then we had the

recording of the speech.
And I I must have listened to

that recording when I was
driving from Prague to Pilsen to

the brewery, like every single
morning it was exactly like 45

minutes speech.
And I was playing it in a CD and

then I lost the CD.
But I remember it by heart, you

know, and that guy was so
inspiring for me.

And I think it's our role to
pass it on to the future

generations.
You mentioned also with brands,

you know, brands that we're
famous in the past that are kind

of like rottening, you know,
because if if people stop buying

them, you know, it's you only
rely on people that used to

drink it.
And I used to drink it for 20-30

years.
At some point they stop drinking

for any reason and the newer
people don't know what to drink.

So amazing words.
I leave you like a space for a

couple of words on how people
can find you of.

Course they can find me on the
social media platforms, on

Instagram or Facebook.
Just I'm gonna be healthy.

Or on my page Adrian
mikalchik.com they can find some

informations there about me.
And of course I will be most

happy to welcome people at the
bar Pier 42 here in Oslo at

Hotel America Linean.
And I will be very happy if I

have a chance to to host some of
you and create some memorable

moments.
We spoke today actually about

the products quite quite a lot.
It was very very different

conversation also for me, but
very nice.

Thank you very much for that at
least.

In general, I will also say one
last thing that many times we

don't really remember which
brand has been in a drink or

what exactly has been in the
drink, but we definitely

remember how that bartender or
that product made us feel, you

know, and it's something the
brand representatives should

understand that OK, if you're
trying to sell the product to

bartender, try to become
definitely personal and create a

connection with the person
because they're still just the

products on the other side.
But this is the humans industry

and that's most important.
So if there is no connection or

no relationship between two
people, it's very hard to do the

business right?
Absolutely, absolutely.

So thanks a lot Adrian.
It was super helpful, super

interesting, very a nice
conversation and I gained a lot

of knowledge for the 1st 10.
I wish that I will visit Prague

very, very soon.
So thanks a lot and I appreciate

it and I hope to have a drink
with you soon and let me know

when you're in.
It's one of my absolutely

favorite cities on the planet.
So I will be looking forward to

meet up in a person again and
have a drink or to Chris, thank

you very much for having me and
have a lovely day.

My pleasure.
Thank you.

Remember that this is a two-part
episode, so if you liked it,

feel free to listen to both part
one and two of our chat.

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So thank you for joining me on

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