088 | Andrew Borenzweig | Bringing Luxury to The American Whiskey Category with The Beverly High Rye

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Now let's get into today's
conversation.

Hi Andrew, welcome to the my
third drinks podcast.

That's a pleasure for me to have
you.

I've been seeing you on LinkedIn
and Instagram and all the social

media.
You're one of those that are

always popping up and I'm happy
to see photos of and I I love

your consistency in execution,
especially what I see in the on

trade.
It's very aspirational.

So let's start with a few
questions.

So like give us a very short
overview of why the Beverly and

the name and the product and
what it is.

Perfect.
Yeah, I would love to.

So, you know, being born and
raised in LA, wanted to kind of

bring a touch of my own personal
inspiration and also bring a

touch of luxury to American
whiskey.

I think when you look at the
landscape, a lot of American

whiskeys are going to have an
ethos that's primarily, you

know, frontier Western country
dominated.

And I felt like there was room
to does really bring a fresh

modern touch of luxury to the
category and to neat Beverly is

the ultimate representation of
that.

It's something that, you know,
kind of gives you that

aspirational lifestyle really
across the globe, right?

And if you see our bottles, we
took sort of an art, art Deco

style inspiration, decanter
style bottle to give it that

kind of old Hollywood feel.
It looks like a 20s kind of

Beverly Hills and feel you know
it, it gets really.

Exactly.
Yeah.

Yeah.
The idea is kind of, you know,

you're hanging out at the
Beverly Hills Hotel sunset hour,

enjoying a nice glass of
whiskey.

Which one should it be?
Of course.

Beverly High ride right?
Fantastic.

And so why did you choose the
High Ride as a name?

What's the back story for that?
Yeah, definitely.

So, I mean, again, a lot of this
is going to be my own personal

preference.
You know, I've been working in

the WW industry for my whole
adult life.

Over that time, I've tasted a
lot of whiskeys.

And for me, I really fell in
love with rye, right?

I think rye is very bold, very
complex, very intriguing, but

that being summarized in a much
smaller category compared to

bourbon.
And I think, you know, some of

the downside of rye, or at least
the perceived downside, is that

it can be a little bit rough, a
little bit coarse.

And I think sometimes that can
intimidate, inseminate people,

right?
So for us, the idea was really

to harness all of those great
things about rye, that bold,

spicy flavor, but give it some
of that rich, smooth character

associated with bourbon so that
it's just a little bit more

inviting than a traditional rye
without compromising that bold,

spicy flavor that of course
you're going to be looking for.

I really like what you are
conveying as a message and what

you do in execution because I'm
talking a lot about the

commercial proposition or how do
you translate a brand

positioning into a commercial
proposition for bars and

restaurants, specifically for
the entree to start with the

bottom up.
And I really love the bottle

fits so perfectly.
The outlets that you are

showing, you know, as a listing
on Instagram and on social media

and so on.
So it's really clear if the

Beverly High rise was an outlet,
that's what it would be.

And then when I see that on the
page, then I was like, wow,

beautiful.
This is really what I'm talking

about and it's nice to see it
from somebody as a brand owner.

It's really conveyed a message.
Yeah, absolutely.

And I think, you know, there are
kind of two pieces of this.

You know, I think story is very
important and having that kind

of authenticity, you know, of
course, bringing that into every

interaction and every tasting,
every meeting, I think that goes

a long way.
But at the same time, you know,

you want to design a product
that to kind of speak for

itself, convey, you know, that
sense of fit without me being

there to tell the full story,
right.

And I think exactly like you're
saying, you know, when you look

at the bottle, you look at the
the packaging, you taste the

liquid, you can kind of just
see, OK, you know, I think, and

this has been our experience, a
lot of our managers will taste

it and see, OK, Atkinson faculty
where this is going to go on the

back bar.
And I can see exactly how this

is going to fit in a program and
kind of fill fill a niche as

well.
And, and when you started, I

mean, without, let's say,
disclosing internal strategy,

but what was that like a gap
from what you heard from the

trade in terms of like a
luxurious kind of whiskey that

was specifically on the right
side of things, but also like in

more general on the American
whiskey landscape.

Was this something that people
understood right away the gap

that it was filling?
Or was it more like harder to

explain and do some groundwork
on getting those listings?

Honestly, I think it's it
resonated pretty quickly, which

I mean, we're we're very
fortunate for that.

And I think, you know, when you
look at the landscape of

American whiskey jackally, you
know, they're just there really

is that gap.
And again, having spent some

time working in the industry, it
just, it became pretty apparent.

And you know, I think especially
here in LA targeting the types

of outlets that we've we've
targeted, whether that be, you

know, Beverly Wilshire, Nobu,
Mastro's, Trippiani, it's just,

it's just been very seamless and
very frictionless.

And, you know, I mean, most
importantly, their guests have

been really gravitating towards
it.

And of course that's that's
always going to be the most

important thing to keep
everybody happy.

I mean, you said fortunate, but
probably it was quite a lot of

homework that was done before
that.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.
And I think a lot of that

informs, you know, the bottle
design the, you know, I mean as

much as the flavor profile was
influenced by what I like to

drink.
I mean, of course, you know,

there was a lot of R&D that went
into that and you know, a lot of

samples going out into the
market and you know, just doing

a lot of testing, making sure
that everything, you know,

everything that went into the
product is going to be perfect.

And I think once you nail the
products and you sort of start

to find that fit, everything
just becomes much more seamless

and and then you can kind of
just keep hammering what what's

working right.
Interesting.

One of the things I'm talking
about in is this target occasion

and really focusing on an
occasion.

And I saw in your communication
on your websites, obviously

there's a lot of neat serve on
the rocks, but also a cocktail.

Did you discover by, let's say,
learning by doing a particular

way that was mostly enjoyed or
it really depends on the outlet

or there's a cocktail, There's a
significant cocktail thing that

really resonates with the bottle
and the product or not?

I think from a positioning
standpoint, first and foremost,

it has to be a great sipping
whiskey, right?

And I, and that was always our
focus, right?

We're doing recipe development,
making sure that it's going to

be great.
But at the same time, I think

having that versatility to, you
know, enjoy a meet on the rocks

in a great cocktail is super
important.

And realistically, especially on
train, you know, most most

consumers that you know, most
people dine at Nobu are probably

going to be enjoying it in a
cocktail, right?

And I think that's generally
true.

Usually in the classics, they're
always going to be the most

successful right here in the
States.

It's going to be an old
fashioned, far and away the most

popular cocktail with using
American whiskey.

We've had a lot of success in
Manhattan's Boulevardiers.

And you know, of course, there
are so many programs, so many

amazing bartenders, managers who
have made totally unique

cocktails which have done very
well team.

So I mean, I think, you know,
when looking at off trade, I

find that consumers typically
are looking to enjoy it meet on

its own when they're, you know,
when they're at home unwinding

after a day of work.
That seems to be, you know, the

primary way people are enjoying
it.

But I think it's a, it's a mix
and it's good to, you know, it's

good to have that versatility
and be able to do both well.

So the cocktail plays like the
liquid on lip foot in the door

to get people to discover it.
Otherwise probably they wouldn't

pick it up as a choice of from
the back bar.

But then if it's on a program on
the cocktail, then they

discovered that and then they
say, OK, actually I'd really

like it, and then I can go and
buy it.

Exactly.
They tried the cocktail, they

see it in the menu there.
They love the cocktail.

They're curious to learn more
and I think especially when

you're brand new, you know, you
can lean on cocktail many

placements, you can really try
to build great relationships

with staff, try to get
bartenders to recommend it.

If somebody orders classic old
fashioned at the bar, you know,

hopefully have them recommend
Beverly High ride for that.

And I think you know that for
me, building those relationships

has been the most important
thing.

And obviously having limited
resources and me really being

the only person in the field for
the most part, you know, I've

really focused on small select
number of outlets, right, really

primarily just in Southern
California, although we're

starting to expand to Japan and
Tennessee and other markets as

well.
But you know, building, building

those real relationships over,
you know, with consistency over

a long period of time to
hopefully earn those

recommendations as well.
And that's then super important

for me.
I mean, there's a couple of

things to discuss there, like
the, you know, the way to

export.
But like from what I understood,

you are primarily Southern
California focus for now, yeah.

Exactly.
And this is resonating with what

I talk about like the winning
the home turf kind of thing.

Now it would it would look weird
if you something called the

Beverly High ride wouldn't be
listed in in LA.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And I think, you know, for me

the, the most important metric
of success is reorders, right?

What does that turnover look
like?

You know, sure, it's great to
get sell a case into a bar, but

are people actually drinking it?
You know, is it actually moving?

And at the end of the day, that
kind of real traction is what is

going to build the business over
time, right?

And I think, you know, for me,
I'd always rather go deep as

opposed to going wide.
But that being said, while

focusing on outlets that do have
the potential to scale, right,

you know, names like, you know,
Nobu, Four Seasons, Chip Riotti

that are that are known all
across the world that have, you

know, outlets all across the
world.

And when it is time for us to
grow, then we sort of have these

channels as a built in platform,
right?

This is another things that I'm
discussing with a lot of guests.

And there's one thing with the
independent outlets and the

entree and then there's groups
and chains and on the premium

end of obviously when you start,
it sounds like that can be the

foot in the door for you for
expansion.

Like was that the reason why you
started Japan?

Because I'm I'm seeing a
connection Nobu Nobu with Japan.

Yeah, absolutely.
So I mean, you know, Japan

really did come exactly through.
Nobu Tokyo, you know, Nobu Tokyo

wanted to bring it in after I
think, you know, seeing what we

have been doing here and Nobu in
California and New York.

And fortunately, they introduced
us to one of their favorite

importers distributors and we
made it happen.

So we just launched in Japan in
September.

And it's been, it's been
amazing.

I mean, the cocktail culture out
there is really something else.

And I've been twice in the last
3-4 months now and it's just

been, it's been incredible.
It's been incredible.

A lot of people contact me for
this.

Is that the focus that I'm
talking about?

It doesn't mean that you cannot
grasp opportunities, you know,

it's just that you need to be
mindful of not spreading

yourself to thing.
Now when you said it's better to

go deep than wide, what I always
say is that it if it brings

credentials to the brand, then
it's worth pursuing it.

Otherwise you're just basically
shipping pallets here and there

and then you, you right which.
Is tempting, which is tempting,

right?
It's very tempting to, you know,

I mean, when you think,
especially as, you know, as ACEO

or founder, it's very tempting
to say, oh, you know, next year

we can ship a pallet to this
market, a pallet to this market,

you know, but unless you really
are going to be in the market

building bottom up, right,
building those relationships at

the end of the day, when you
look back a year later, you

know, are, are, are, have you
moved through that pallet?

Are you going to be selling
another pallet to that market?

And I'm just being realistic
with the resources that you

have, it just makes much more
sense to keep that focus, you

know, keep it tight and exactly
go deep as opposed to going

wide.
But I do think that Japan

opportunity has been interesting
in a lot of ways.

You know, I think it it
definitely adds a dimension to

the brand, right?
I think it gives it a global

feel.
And I think there's so many, you

know, for the types of outlets
that we've had success at, there

are so many of those in Japan,
right?

So I think, you know, for
example, we're at Aman Tokyo,

right?
We're at Nobu Tokyo, soon will

be at Ritz Carlton in Tokyo, as
well as a lot of amazing sort of

smaller craft cocktail bars.
And you know, for us, that's

very exciting.
Well, well, and I guess this is

also like this kind of like
iterations and feedback loop

sort of thing now, because then
maybe you know, by then entering

the Ritz in Tokyo, then you may
end up again into building the

credentials into the same chain
back in California.

And then it becomes this kind of
snowball effect.

Very reciprocal.
Exactly.

Yeah, yeah.
And let's talk a little bit

about the SKU's that you have
in, because I mean the barely

high rise, the main from what I
understood, the main kind of

like the flagship product.
But I've seen on the website and

on your communication that you
also have other SKU's.

So how do they play?
What's your portfolio strategy

so to say?
Definitely.

So Beverly High rise is our core
expression again, very

versatile.
You know, if we if we have a

cocktail, you know, opportunity
to be in a cocktail on the menu,

it's almost always going to be
Beverly High, right?

You know, and, and I think
that's become the flavor

profile.
It's also because of the price

point, right?
It retails for about $60.00 a

model in the US 6065.
Then we have the Reserve, which

is going to be our barrel
strength blend, also a blend of

bourbon and rye, 6040 bourbon to
rye.

So it's going to be richer or
sweeter drinks, more like a

bourbon and you know, at that
proof, this is a great one to

just sip neat, sip slowly also
makes the great high proof old

fashioned.
So you know, if we are doing R&D

on a cocktail, usually I'll
suggest for Beverly High ride,

you know, Manhattan, you know,
some sort of Manhattan or play

out of Manhattan or Boulevardier
Sazerac tend to be the best

fits, whereas the Reserve I
think just really sings in an

old fashioned and they're very
complimentary in that in that

sense.
I've seen also some other

interesting thing, I don't know
if you call them collaborations

or limited edition.
I've seen something you've done

for the Beverly Wheelchair and
for other, for the other kind of

outlets and clients.
How does that play because I

guess these venues are very
demanding.

So there there is this trend
about localizing and about like

having their own sort of range.
So how does that play into the

overall portfolio of of yours?
Yeah, great question.

So we've done a couple exclusive
additions which are basically

going to be special cast, you
know, unique special cast finish

expressions on Beverly High ride
for different hotels.

So we did one for Beverly
Wilshire, which is The Four

Seasons Hotel here in Beverly
Hills, very iconic property.

We did a Ruby forecast finish
for them last year.

And we just released an orange
wine cast finish expression of

Beverly High ride for Disney's
Grand Californian hotel here in

Orange County, actually just
about a month ago.

So, you know, I think of course
for for the hotels, they really

always want to deliver a special
experience for their guests,

right?
And I think having a really

unique product is something
that, you know, impresses their

guests.
And it's something you can only

find there, right?
And I think it's beneficial in

so many different ways, really
gets the staff excited, right?

It's something that they can be
proud of.

And you know, a lot of these
conversa conversations have

started out as sort of, hey, can
we do a, you know, a barrel

pick, for example.
But you know, for us, scoring

that extra mile, doing the
special cast finish and, and

selecting a cast finish that's
going to have a flavor profile

that, you know, it's going to
resonate well with the the

hotel's guests.
It's, it's just been, it's been

very, very successful for us and
I think very mutually

beneficial.
No, that's beautiful.

This is something that I was
discussing, for example, with

Georgie Bell in one of the
previous episodes from the heart

cuts.
You know, the fact that I mean,

for example, they do it for the
distilleries.

They do they do single barrels
from certain distilleries and I

feel this special editions or
exclusive editions like they

bring kind of refreshed look,
can feel and taste profile to

the core SKU.
You know, So what I hear here is

that like you bring something
for a specific client again,

like feedback loop to each other
now, because then you play with

an SKU that is only exclusive in
an outlet in a hotel or in a bar

in a restaurant.
And then being the name there,

like you actually into the main
SKU that you can then use also

in retail and so on.
So I really love.

The exactly idea, yeah, no,
absolutely.

And the goal is always to really
bring the spotlight back to our

core expressions, right.
So doing these kind of.

Exclusives.
It's an amazing way to, you

know, build, build a
relationship when obviously, you

know, done California hotel
family Wilshire, two of the most

prominent properties, certainly
here in California, but you

know, known, known worldwide.
And you know that that exposure,

of course, is going to, you
know, bring bring eyeballs to to

our brand and hopefully bring
people to our signature product.

You know, like you say, you
know, pick up a bottle, bring it

home and you know, that's,
that's, that's absolutely been

the sort of feedback loop that
we've been looking for.

And you know, with Beverly High
Ryan and the reserve too, right?

The the goal is really for these
to be your go to daily drinkers,

right.
And we've been very mindful of,

you know, not not necessarily
leaning too hard on limited

editions, you know, not not
going crazy, expanding our

portfolio and really keeping
that focus on our signature

bourbon rye blends, building
those.

But these hotel foundations have
been the exception because of

exactly what you're saying.
It just been brings great

exposure and it really just
helps these relationships at the

end of the day.
Nice.

And I'm discussing a lot like
with other guests also the fact

that kind of like the cross
pollination between categories.

Now, I mean, I I love the fact
that you're bringing, you know,

bourbon and rye together in
different kind of ratios.

And do you also see kind of like
a cross pollination between

whiskey and other categories?
I mean like the trending tequila

or the mezcals and of, you know,
especially in California, do you

see from an occasion perspective
to, you know, to bridge between

these categories or is it a very
category specific like it's

American whiskey and that's it?
I would say it's primarily

American whiskey, right?
But I mean, it's funny.

I actually literally, no joke,
had a dream last night that we

did.
And then the cast finished on

Beverly Hot Rise.
So maybe there's something

there.
But yeah, I think I think

keeping it to the bourbon rye
blend is going to be our focus,

right?
We did do a limited edition

American single malt.
And you know, American single

malt was just ratified as an
official category by the TTB

just last week.
And you know, I think that's a

very exciting frontier.
So we get up, you know, the

distillery, we partner with
Cedar Ridge, they've got an

amazing single mock called the
Quintessential Murphy or Matt,

their master distiller has been
putting out these amazing

special releases.
And earlier this year we we

thought it'd be awesome to do a
collaboration.

The Quintessential edition of
the Beverly finished in a

Montano Sherry in French oak as
sort of just a one time limited,

very special release.
And that's been that's been

awesome.
I mean, I'm personally not

nearly as familiar with American
single malt and I think that is

a very exciting new frontier
within American whiskey that,

you know, who knows, you know,
if you're some some of years

down the line, maybe we'll we'll
start to explore.

But but yeah, I think in the
meantime, the bourbon rye blend,

Beverly High ride, Beverly
Reserve, those are going to be

our our signatures.
Nice.

And what about in terms of off
trade?

I mean, we spoke a lot about the
on trade and we touched on the

off trade, but it's specifically
in the US it's a very important

channel on the retail and so
forth.

But you know, how do you play?
How do you, let's say split

yourself, say, between on and
off in terms of this groundwork

and this bottom up hustling?
Yeah, that's a, that's, that's a

great question.
And that's a balance that I'm

still, I'm still trying to
trying to work out, right.

But I mean, we, we first
launched Beverly High ride on 2

1/2 years ago and the strategy
has been really to build the

brand on trade, right.
So to focus on being at these,

you know, prominent popular
bars, restaurants, hotels, and

really get our, our target
customer, their guests exposed

to the product in an exciting
way through those channels.

And, and throughout that time,
we've also been focused on

building the brand with PR And
we've been in Forbes, Falling

Stone, Bloomberg several times
and, you know, trying to really

bring the brand to a wider set
of eyeballs that way while

keeping our market focus very,
very tight, right.

But we've actually just, we've
rolled out in pavilions earlier

in this fall.
That's our biggest retail

opportunity today, 25 stores
here in Southern California.

And it's definitely been an
adjustment, you know, making

sure that we're servicing all of
those accounts properly, right.

And it's a very different format
from the on trade, you know,

doing in store taste days all
the time, you know, getting

their customers exposed to it
liquid to lips by, you know,

bottom up.
It's still the same fundamental

strategy, but very different
channel.

And you know, I think after
about, you know, after two 2 1/2

years building a brand over all
this time, we're starting to get

to the point where a lot of
people are familiar with it.

They've tried it before, they've
seen it on Instagram, They've

they've heard of somebody talk
about it.

And, you know, honestly, I think
exercising that patience to wait

until this point to start to
really branch out on the in the

off trade has been beneficial,
right?

Because at the end of the day,
you, you need that pull through

and as a new brand off premise
especially, you know, there are

only so many ways that you can
expose your product to customers

in the store, right?
Again, staff recommendations in

store tastings or the staff are
recommending it and you know,

it's, it's definitely a
challenge.

But I think, you know, once you
have that brand awareness,

right, hopefully you already
have a loyal following and

people who are going to be
coming in and pulling it off the

shelf, which makes your life a
lot easier, obviously.

Of course.
And do you see this kind of like

spillover effect between on and
off in, you know, when you have

a, such a geographic focus in
the listings, Do you see this

kind of, or can you track it
somehow?

Or do you see even just kind of
like a qualitative research,

like the spillover between on
trade buyers buying it, enjoying

it in a new fashioned in a in
Nobu, so to say, and then going

into a store and, and, and
buying it?

Or is it more like 2, kind of
like separate path to the

bottle?
I, I, I try to view it more

holistically where I think, you
know, when you're, you're

focused on a market, you know, I
of course entree for us has been

the, the most important piece of
that.

But also, you know, what, what
activations are you doing in

that, in that market?
Are you doing digital

advertising in that market?
And I think that all comes

together to build that brand
awareness and hopefully is

sending somebody to the store to
pick up a bottle.

But for me, that last piece of
it and going to the store to

pick up a bottle is almost like
the final conversion, right?

And I think all of these other
channels have to come together

in order to really get people to
to, to that point, right.

So I think it's really focusing
on, you know, executing in, in

multiple channels to build the
brand in a specific area.

And then, you know, hopefully
over time that leads to people

picking it up off premise.
And I think, you know,

fortunately we're, we're, we're
definitely, we're definitely

starting to see that pick up.
No, that's beautiful.

I've I've been always an on
trade guy.

You know, I, I never really like
off trade, let's say big

retailers, you know, I don't
like to go and park the car and

take a trolley and walk the
aisle and get lost.

But I've changed my mind.
I coined this term like bottom

up trade, regardless if it's on
or off, but it's where you can

actually build the brand and
where you can have a

conversation.
And there is an intermediary

between the consumer or the
buyer, the shopper and the

bottle Now.
So whether is a clerk in the

shop or a bartender in a bar,
you know, if there's someone

that can actually tell that
story on your behalf, whether

it's you doing the sampling or
whether it's legal, but you

know, otherwise it's designated
people.

You know, that's where it
matters now.

And what it sounds like there's
that, you know, you are putting

the digital amplification, so to
say, within that game, it's it's

the bottom up trade and they all
ecosystem that goes around it.

And it could be a digital ads or
an Instagram adverts that

basically maybe those people
have never really enjoyed it in

the no boos and the The Four
Seasons.

But then they get it, they get
prompted, and they get prompted

at the right time, and then they
may start buying it in the off

trade before they actually ever
tried a cocktail in a bar.

I think that's a great point.
And one other thing I would say

is I think, you know, so much of
this comes down to people,

right?
And if you have somebody who is

a clerk at the Millions or a
bartender at Cipriani, if

they're eager to, you know, hear
your story, try your product and

they're, they're somebody who's
open to having a relationship

with you.
It, it actually doesn't even

really matter where it is, what
type of outlet it is.

For me, the focus is always on
working at outlets that have

those types of people, right,
who are open to, we're open to

building a relationship with you
and really focusing efforts

towards those, those people and,
and those places.

One of the things that we
discussed a lot in is the not

spreading yourself too thin.
No.

And very often I see that
owners, they have a very big

appetite for off trade because
they feel it can unlock so much

volume all of a sudden.
But ultimately with these huge

ranges of retail, often I was
discussing it with, I think it

was with Nick from Mangrove in
the previous episode.

You know, sometimes we notice
that a bar is actually selling

as much as a retailer of of
course with the full potential

of 200 stores, it's a lot of
volume, but then buy outlets,

it's actually not that much.
But the F40 takes even from a

financial point of view of
getting the listing puts in the

stock forward and getting paid
after six months.

What's your take on this and
what's your advice to other

people in your in your shoes?
I think it's, it, it comes down

to push versus pull to an
extent, right?

Because I think the, the impulse
to push out, let's say, a pallet

to a big box retailer, it's very
tempting.

Just like I think, you know,
the, the temptation to push out

a pallet to a new market that
you don't really plan to spend a

whole lot of time.
And it's also very tempting,

right?
Because it's, it's revenue and

sales coming in the door.
And, and obviously there's

always a lot of pressure for
that.

But I think at the end of the
day, in the poll is the most

important, right?
I mean, if you ship to, I don't

know, if you open up 50
different, 5050 different stores

in a big box retailer and
product doesn't move, then you

just burn that bridge and you
know, yeah, you, you got that

one, you know, big order.
But you know, for me, if that's

not, it's not, if that's not
going to lead to recurrent

sales, then I'd rather work with
a bar who's going to be

introducing their guests to it,
right?

Where we can, we can activate,
use it as a platform to really

build the brand and you know,
and also earn recurring sales

that way.
So, you know, I think that's,

that's, that's tough.
And I think for me, just

exercising patience in the off
premises, the the most important

thing, right, really making sure
that you're confident that your

brand has the awareness and it's
going to be you're going to be

able to generate enough pull on
your own to make that

partnership a success.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Feels a lot like driving the car
now.

Like get confident at low speeds
that you can maneuver the car

before you increase the speeds,
you know, like it's a, you know.

Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.

And I mean, especially, you
know, if you're used to, you

know, if you're used to the off
trade, even just starting to

focus on the off trade is such a
big transition.

And then, you know, you could be
opening up 2550 a hundred stores

at a time, right?
And you know, even if you have a

reasonably large team, that's
still very overwhelming to

manage.
So 100%, I think patience is the

name of the game.
I think building the brand in an

organic way is the name of the
game.

And I think that that always
pays off to the end.

Great.
So I want to leave you some

space to, to let us know how can
people find you and get in touch

with you and if you have any
advice to leave to your fellow.

I mean, there's a lot of brand
owners in your shoes listening

to the podcast, so the stage is
yours.

I would just say it's a, it's a
huge, huge world, huge market

out there and it's, it's very
challenging.

I think for me, you know, the
most rewarding thing is always

finding great people to work
with.

Of course, create special
experiences using your products

with, but also people that you
can just genuinely enjoy working

with, be friends with.
And those people are out there.

And I think once you find them,
just always make sure to focus

on that.
And I think that leads to great

results for the brand.
It also helps to fight some of

the the burnout that you can
find when you feel like you're

just always running into the
same brick wall over and over

again.
I try to remind myself that all

the time.
And if you'd like to follow me

on LinkedIn, my name is Andrew
Bournswick and our Instagram is

at Beverly High Ride.
Fantastic.

So thank you so much, Andrew.
It was a great pleasure to

finally meet you and get to
speak to you and we keep in

touch.
Likewise, Thanks so much, Chris.

Appreciate you having me on.
That's a wrap on today's

episode.
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