022 | Traditional to Modern Occasions | How they evolve and What Consumers Need | Part 1/2 with Paul Hletko of FEW Spirits and Goza Tequila (Chicago, IL, USA)

Hi and.
Welcome to the Mafair Drinks

Podcast.
I'm Chris Mafair, founder of

Mafair Drinks, where we provide
the nonsense approach to

building drinks brands from the
bottom up.

I will be your host.
And in each episode, I will

interview a drinks builder from
the drinks and hospitality

ecosystem.
In episode 22 and 23, I had the

pleasure of interviewing Paul
Letko.

He is the founder and distiller
of few spirits.

And CEO of Goza Tequila.
He's the former.

President of the American Craft
Spirits Association, he has

played a key role.
In the revival of small batch

spirits in the US and brings an
incredible experience to the

podcast.
I hope you will enjoy our chat.

Remember.
That this is a two-part episode,

so if you liked it.
Feel free to listen to both part

one.
And two of our chat, hi, Paul.

How you doing?
Hey, how you doing?

Good.
Chris, happy to be on today.

Very excited to be here.
Nice, nice.

Thanks for making the time.
This is a real honor for me to

have you and for our listeners.
I mean, Paul and I met well,

like a couple of years ago on
the hype of clubhouse when?

We were all sleeping at home.
Yeah, Clubhouse was fun.

Until it wasn't exactly.
But I mean, we have to be

thankful because that's how we
met, no.

So yeah.
There's There was a lot of

really good stuff happening on
Clubhouse for a long time and it

was a really exciting place
because you could really have

access and talk to some really
cool people all over the world.

But it was just a little too
Wild West.

I still remember when you I was
just listening in one of your

rooms and and then all of a
sudden you asked me a question.

I was like, like, you know, I
need to answer now.

Like it was my my very first
intervention in a in a room.

So it was really, it was really
fun and thanks for that.

And then that's how I got into
the world of spirits.

I was, I was coming from beer.
So you were you're asking me

questions about beer and about
Europe And then here we are like

a couple of years after?
So no, it's it's always a

fascinating thing and like, even
like you talk about beer and

spirits, like.
The differences between beer and

spirits in the US and the
differences between beer and

spirits in Chechnya and the
difference in beer and spirits

and all these different markets,
and it's, I think it's one of

the really cool things about
this beverage alcohol business

is how wide and diverse it is,
that there's all these nuances

that from an outsider's
perspective might not seem like

they're a big deal.
But to those of us who are in

the trenches, the differences
between beer and spirits are

mountains.
I guess these major blocked that

you just don't understand unless
you're in it.

Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, that's that's right.

Speaking about this, after
working in many, many countries,

I come to the conclusion that I
agree with you that there's a

lot of differences.
But for let's say 50 to 80% of

the trade, it's basically the
same stuff in the sense that I

mean, you're still marketing a
product to to customers.

Do you do you feel that way or
do you feel is actually a much

more difference?
I think it's, I think there's a

lot more differences than that.
I mean, but it depends on how

you're looking at it.
Like if you're looking at it

from a overall general business
proposition of, you know, buy

low, sell high kind of thing,
then yeah, they're very similar.

But when you get down into the
heat of the battle, they are

very, very different because
people are going to purchase for

different reasons.
You have different purchasers

you often and I don't mean like
the people who are drinking,

I'm.
I'm much more mean like the

buyer at the retailer.
You know the retailer has a

different buyer for beer that
they do for spirits very

frequently.
So just that those simple little

blocking and tackling of, oh,
well, I'm selling beer, so I

talked to Chris, if you're
selling spirits, you got to talk

to Paul.
You know these are huge

differences that you don't
really necessarily understand.

You know the difference in the
trade pattern of spirits have

shelf life and beer doesn't.
Refrigerated trucks,

refrigerated storage.
Kegs, keg, inventory tracking

kegs, and even just things like
the cost of shipping.

Like it costs a hell of a lot
more to ship a a pallet or a

container of beer than it does
for spirits on a unit basis.

It may cost the same amount of
EUR or dollars to move that

container, but the value of the
product inside that container is

very different for beer and for
spirits.

And so I think these things all
have huge effects on the nature

of the business, maybe not so
much on the brand building part

of it, so on, but in your
operations side, they're just,

they're very different.
Yes, that's true.

That's true.
Building on what you're saying

that one thing that I talk a lot
on, on LinkedIn and on on here

is the focus on the target
occasion.

You buy it for different reasons
for different consumer that this

there's different needs from
perspective and even diving deep

into the spirits world which is
more of your area is there you

know a target occasion that you
focus on.

I mean that it's important to
focus on in your experience.

I don't how you build your your
brand.

I don't think there is a single
occasion in the beverage alcohol

space and I think that's why
it's really cool and exciting

that different brands fit
different occasions.

That's not that any one occasion
is good or bad, It's just

they're different.
So we were talking about

Jägermeister earlier.
Jägermeister has a very defined

consumption occasion, at least
in America.

I think there's a different
occasion in Germany and I think

there's different occasions in
certain markets across Europe.

But here in the US, the occasion
for drinking Jager is very well.

Established and You know exactly
when you're going to be drinking

Jager.
You're not drinking Jager When

you get up first thing in the
morning, you're not drinking

Jager.
I mean, you can.

I'm not judging anybody.
But that's not that's not your

prime Jager.
Occasion you drink Jager during

the spot occasion you're not
drinking Jager.

To sit there and knows it To go.
Yes.

Slight, you know, slight
background notes of peat Moss.

No, you're drinking Jaeger to
you know we're having a good

time and you're going to take
that down and that's a different

occasion than say for example a
a poor few spirits bourbon

that's going to be a different
occasion.

And so I think that you know
understanding your brand and

understanding what its occasion
is, is super important that you

know if I try to sell few
spirits bourbon as a shot

occasion product.
I'm going to lose because few

spirits, bourbon is not a shot
occasion product.

Same way as if I'm trying to
sell Yeager as a high end

connoisseurs whiskey, you're
going to lose that bow because

that's not what the Yeager
product is.

And so I think it's really basic
business one-on-one of who's

your customer and understand
what they want.

And also at the same time,
understanding that in particular

in spirits, but also in
basically every business or

basically every CPG business,
you have multiple customers,

Then yes, the person that you
most need is the person that is

drinking the beverage in our
little world here.

But to get to that consumer, you
have to convince a distributor

and you have to convince a
retailer to stock it.

So you've got three different
consumers.

That you have to understand what
they want and what they need

because your distributor buys
for a different reason than the

drinker.
Your retailer buys for a

different reason than your
drinker, and your drinker buys

for a different reason than
either the retailer or

distributor.
They've got all different goals.

Certainly if you can convince
the consumer to drink your

product, all your other problems
are going to fall into place.

If it's pulling and it's pulling
and it's pulling, your

distributors are gonna get
behind you real quick.

And if it's pulling and pulling,
the retailers are gonna get you

behind real quick that that's
the old bottom up thing, right?

But before you can get to the
drinkers to drink it, you gotta

get through the distributors and
retailers.

So it's brands are built bottom
up.

I wholly agree with you, but you
also have to be able to go top

down, absolutely.
That you have to have a full 360

on.
How are you going to get to

market?
What's your route to market?

How are you going to communicate
to a distributor what your value

add is?
How do you then communicate to

the retailer what your value add
is?

And then how do you communicate
to the drinker?

Oh, I drink few spirits win eye.
I drink goza tequila, win eye.

This is what I want.
And that's how you get to build

your brand.
Bottom up.

Sorry, Yeah.
No, no, absolutely.

It came very bottom up like
that's that last line in my post

and then people started
mentioning it and I kept on

going.
But let's dive into into this

part.
I mean like when you started

few, I mean you were one of the
first guys that that started

craft spirits renaissance,
right?

Yeah, I mean I I always get
nervous saying that we were one

of the first.
I would say we were early is

better you were we were early
and like when we started or when

few started.
There were maybe 30 people

across the United States and
making whiskey from scratch like

we do now.
There's a lot more.

So like when we started, it was
a very different business at

that time because there wasn't
the competition level that there

is now.
And say you talk about you're

building a brand bottom up.
It was a very compelling message

when we started because people
wanted.

What we offered and there
weren't very many places they

could get it.
So if you were a whiskey drinker

who wanted to bring small drink,
small batch Kraft whiskey,

there's maybe 30 brands on the
market.

So it was pretty easy.
If you're a distributor or a

retailer, you want to offer
Kraft whiskey.

There weren't many brands.
So like, if you look at the

world today, it's very different
than it was 11 years ago.

Because eleven years ago I
actually had a three strike roll

for distributors no matter who
you were, the first time you

called me asking to distribute
my products, I said no, call me

in six months and then six
months later if they would call

me, then I would say no, sorry,
not interested, call me in three

months.
Now, when three months later go

by, now they call back and like,
OK, now let's talk.

Because you actually want my
product and you, you understand

what we're doing and you're not
just going to put this in a book

and offer it up for sale.
This is actually, you know, I'm

actually a brand that you want
and I'm solving a problem for

you.
So that was, you know, it's a

different world today because
now distributors, they have all

the craft whiskey they need.
They don't need more craft

whiskey brands.
So what problem are you solving

for them?
Yes.

You know, are you, have you
built your brand bottom up that

their retailers are calling that
customers are going into

retailers asking for the product
which then causes the retailer

to contact the distributor
saying, hey, do you carry this?

Yes.
If you don't have that now,

you're probably in just a little
bit of trouble, at least in the

US.
And what would you recommend and

how?
Let's say how you've done it?

Have you started from your
counter?

I mean, like from Chicago or you
just went directly straight into

the big states where the money
is?

Partially we were with Few.
We're partially lucky because

Illinois is a major state.
This is one of the bigger

markets in particular in the gin
market we used to sell gin at

few and gin consumption in
Chicago is higher than the

national average.
We had some advantages being

here.
But we also had the advantage of

being early so that we were able
to expand much quicker than we

would say for example today
because distributors didn't have

access to what we offered.
But fundamentally I think it's

just always comes back to
understanding what your brand is

and understanding who your
customer is.

You know why does your customer
drink your product, why do they

want to purchase it?
What problem are you solving for

your customer and?
You know, if you think you are

solving an intoxication problem
for your drinker, you are not.

That is never the problem that
an alcohol beverage brand solves

it.
We don't solve that problem

because if you need to get, if
all you want to do is drink

alcohol, you can already do
that.

I don't have a problem getting
drunk.

If I want to get drunk, yes.
I can go by any number of

hundreds of brands.
Most of which are going to cost

a hell of a lot less than the
brands that I actually offer for

sale.
So I am not solving an

intoxication problem for my
customer.

What I am solving is an
experiential problem for my

customer that they want to have
a certain kind of experience,

and that's understanding who
your customer is.

What's the occasion for your
drink?

How do you fit in?
And again you circle back to

Yeager.
Well.

I drink Yeager when I'm wanting
to party and I want to kick the

party off, right?
And I want to do this and I want

to do a dare shot.
Hey, I dare you do a shot of

that.
That's my occasion for drinking

Jager.
And that's a different occasion

than it is for a martini.
Like you don't drink a martini

that way.
So if I'm a gin brand, I'm not

looking at the shot occasion.
I'm probably looking at the

elevated cocktail occasion
because.

No one does.
You know, even though there's a

few years ago, there's a big
movement to make warm gin shots,

a trend it never took off.
So if you're trying to market to

a shot occasion, gin is probably
not your right product.

Customers don't want to do gin
for the shot occasion.

They want to do Yeager, they
want to do Mallory, they want to

do schnapps, they want to do
tequila shots.

You can, you know, if you look
at the shot occasion, you can

look at different things, right?
So on one occasion you've got

your tequila shot occasion, on
your other hand you've got your

Yeager shot occasion.
This is why your customers are

drinking.
Solve the problem and tell them

why and when they want to drink
your product and they will.

They just people need to
understand it.

And I think that's one of the
challenges with a lot of

categories is that consumers
don't know when to drink the

category.
You know, when do I go drink

Masti outside of Greece?
In Greece again, totally

different thing.
In Greece, you could pick a

different a different product
for whatever, like an Amato or

a.
Or an Amaro Outside of Amaro.

Outside of Italy, Americans
don't generally understand when

to drink an Amaro.
It's coming.

The market's definitely coming,
don't get me wrong.

But we don't have an amoral
culture in the United States the

same way Italy does.
We just, we don't like, when do

you drink vermouth?
Americans don't know when to

drink vermouth outside of a
martini or a Manhattan.

We don't go, You know, Americans
don't go drink glasses of

vermouth.
This is a very interesting point

that you bring because I'm a big
fan of history.

I read a lot of books about that
and and I I I love how that the

drinks industry is actually very
connected to history, right.

So because I mean it, it's
rooted into culture and and

habits and and especially I mean
in a place like the USI mean

with a lot of immigrants coming
in and bringing their own booze

or habits.
So to say, you know, I feel that

there is always like a
traditional occasion that that's

where the drink starts from.
So taking a matter as an

example, it would be an Italian
restaurant or an Italian meal.

You know, you go to some
Italians and they would have

their bottle and after dinner
they would take it out and, you

know, offer it to you or you
would go to a restaurant or a

pizza or whatever.
Same thing with tequila, mescal,

you know, all the Agava spirits,
it would be the same.

Originally it starts from the
Mexican cuisine and then it

becomes like a Fifth Ave.
skyscraper rooftop kind of

occasion, right?
But but I feel the many brands

try to skip that first part of
the tradition and they just go

into the fancy and sexy part of
the brand building.

But then they are basically
missing out on a big chunk of

regular users that they could
grab that they have totally

skipped just because out of
perception they feel they are

kind of like a more mainstream
kind of occasions mainly.

So what was just what's your
take on on on that?

I think it just kind of depends.
And I think, again, like every

brand, there's an opportunity
for that brand to own its space.

See, we'll talk about tequila,
right.

So historically, tequila in the
United States was absolutely

dominated by Jose Cuervo.
That continues to be Trueman.

Quaervo remains a massive brand,
but Quaervo's now has at least

the perception.
I'm not saying it's not a great

brand or great juice, but
Quaervo has the perception of

being much more of a shot
occasion, inexpensive.

I'm just crushing margaritas.
That's the perception of Cuervo.

And so that's the occasion for
that brand.

They have to have a higher
element than you know, just you

know.
Give me some leeway here.

No, I understand.
But you also now have huge

categories in much more premium
tequila and I'm talking about

brands like Esplan and goes at
tequila, brands that, yeah, I

gotta put a plug in somewhere,
absolutely.

But you're talking about these
kind of like mid to higher end

tequilas?
In the, you know, like €30 to

say 6070 euro category.
And then you've also got a

really good market in the really
high end tequilas as well.

And these are all going to have
different occasions, right?

So you take like a brand like
Esplanade or Goza and that's a

great shot.
Yes, you can do shots of it.

You can also put it in your
Margarita.

You could drink it neat, like
there's a bunch of stuff you can

do with it.
On the lower end, you're

probably not drinking your lower
end tequila's neat.

You're doing shots, you're doing
cocktails.

You could elevate that up a
little bit in that kind of

middle 30 to 5060 year old area.
Once you go above that, you're

probably not talking as much
cocktails.

You're probably much more
talking about neat and rocks and

understanding what's the
drinking occasion for.

This brand, you know what is the
occasion for drinking a tequila

ocho and yaeho?
Drinking tequila ocho and yaeho?

You're probably not doing that
with shots with your buddy after

work.
You're probably doing that.

Hey, congratulations on your
promotion.

Congratulations on your new kid.
Congratulations.

The wedding.
Whereas tappy hour after work,

Hey, I have a shot of quervo,
You know what is?

You know, where does your brand
fit in and what?

What problem does it solve for
your consumer?

Is it intoxication?
Is it experiential?

Do I know when and how to do it?
Another kind of counterexample

There would be Keshasa,
obviously a huge category in

Brazil, but it struggles outside
of Brazil, not because of the

quality.
But you know, frankly, I think

that in the United States, one
of the reasons Keshasa is not a

much larger category is because
nobody knows how to say it.

And you don't want to.
You don't want to look like a

jerk in front of the boy or girl
you're trying to impress and

take any risk of the bartender
going, oh, you need Keshasa

instead of can I get that
kechaka.

What's the kechaka?
Oh, Keshasa.

Now you look like a jerk.
And now like, oh, I can't drink

that.
You're not going to take any

risk there.
What, Kypherina, I get the

Kyper.
Onna.

I I don't know.
I don't know how to say that.

So that's the real thing.
Like, you want understanding

when that you're talking about
tomorrow.

Like when do I drink tomorrow?
I have a I love person I love

tomorrow, but I'll drink it
after dinner, which is I think

one of the obviously the classic
serves, but I know when to drink

it.
Americans don't.

Yeah, talking about that like in
terms of like to to give

examples to the listeners about
target occasion because

sometimes like people ask me and
that they're not really clear

about about what I mean is that
to give a real example of your

experience, I mean if you take
one of your whiskeys.

How did you place that into the
your target occasion?

Was it more of a of a sipping
thing?

Was it more in like in cocktails
or where you're not clear where

you're leaving it open?
How did you play when you when

you first built build the brand
started.

We were trying to go, we were
trying to be a little bit of a

Jack of all trades and I think
in some ways we kind of still

do.
We're never going to be your low

cost and we're never going to be
your high cost.

We're coming in kind of in the
middle.

And so we offer an occasion
where you are looking for

something that is better.
Maybe you're not looking to

completely be a baller and
you're not splashing and making

a rain.
You're just having something

that's really meaningful and
you're trying to have an

experience while you're drinking
it.

It's a storytelling like when
you drink few spirits, you pour

the drink where you order the
drink and there's a story that

goes around it that you are
sharing with your companions.

You know, we talk about few
spirits as being the whiskey you

share with your friends and
family.

You're not doing shots.
A few you could cocktail with

it, you could drink it neat,
rock, whatever you want to do.

But we are looking for something
that's going to be a little bit

more elevated.
We're not your daily drinker,

but we're also not the whiskey
you pull out for your parents'

50th wedding anniversary,
either.

You know, we're a approachable
luxury spirit that costs more

than your average whiskey, but
it's not your special occasion.

And I think that's really kind
of where we were always trying

to go, was we?
We've always tried to position a

few as a social whiskey.
You drink it with your friends.

Your occasion is that's your
occasion is social.

You've got other whiskeys where
it's be more like a whiskey

tasting.
You've got other whiskeys that

might be your whiskey cigar
combo.

You've got other whiskeys where
you break it out when you want

to show your friends how
expensive and how much whiskey

you can afford to buy.
That's that's not our occasion

for few spirits.
Did you bring it out to the

trade and you know, making it
clear when you were selling it

to bars or I think we, we've
tried to do that.

But I think partially a lot of
it is the unsent or the unsaid

messaging that you can encircle
your brand with.

Like, it's one thing to shout
messaging.

It's another one to deliver an
environment around it that

automatically informs the
consumer.

Oh, now I understand.
And so like if you look at a

bottle, a few spirits, they got
one right here.

Well, I got a bottle of gin
here.

You guys can't see it on the
podcast, but trust me, I'm

holding a bottle of gin.
You know, it looks good.

It feels good when you pick it
up.

It's heavy, you know.
The glass bottle itself weighs

£2.00, so it's got some heft to
it and it weighs and it looks

elegant and it feels elegant and
that has a different look and

feel than say for example goes a
tequila which looks a lot more

like a party.
So if you're looking at these

two brands, even aside for
different categories, you

automatically understand it at
least some aspects of a

different occasion.
Yeah, that's true.

Or if you look like a bottle of
ocho tequila, elegant, this is

going to be a different
occasion.

Than this then it goes on.
Yeah, that's right.

And that's that's Okay.
Like every product has its has

its space in the market.
And one of the challenges of

being the entrepreneur in the
space is you're truly

understanding what your brand
is.

They're designing your brand to
make sure that you're offering

the brand that you're trying to
offer that.

If you're trying to offer a shot
occasion, don't put it in

$150.00 bottle.
Yeah, if you're trying to offer

a celebration occasion, don't
put it in a $9 bottle.

Yeah.
And I love what you're saying.

I mean, it's it goes back to to
really being clear on your

message, first as a, as an
entrepreneur, as a founder, as a

as a builder and then passing it
on to your team, you know, the

core team, and then passing it
on to the third parties because

most of the work is being done
by third parties in selling.

So they need to be able to
explain that.

And I feel also that there's a.
There is a lot of these words

that I misuse like premium and
premiumization and field premium

and so on.
Like you know it means

everything and nothing at the
same time, no.

But when you showed me those
bottle and sorry for you guys

that that cannot cannot really
see it.

I may so show a photo of that,
but you can see already from the

packaging.
You know the packaging is

already conveying a message, but
then also when you explain it.

You can give a sense and people
get it, you know?

And people understand.
Like you can yell it.

Like I couldn't yell to you.
That few spirits is the whiskey

you share with your friends and
family.

That message is almost assuredly
going to go in one ear and then

write off the other one because
we're all absolutely inundated

with marketing messages all day
long.

There's, you know, me as a
consumer, there's a zero chance

that I could actually listen to
or comprehend even 1% of the

marketing messages that I get on
the daily.

There's a zero chance.
So you have to be able to convey

all of these things physically
and with stuff that is always

going to travel with the
bottles, such as say for

example, the bottle itself, you
know, if you have to shout it,

people don't get it.
And if you, if I tell you that

you know, goes as a premium
tequila, you just said say yeah,

blah blah, blah, blah, that's
just a message in the wind.

But if I give you a product that
looks premium and it feels

premium and when I pick it up, I
understand that ooh, this feels

good and it feels like it's got
some authority.

Now, I know that it's a premium
product, not because he told me

it's premium, but because I see
it for myself.

If you give me a product that's,
you know, in a plastic bottle

with a cheap paper label on it,
oh, okay.

Now I understand what this brand
is.

Maybe I'm making jungle juice
tonight and so I need to dump a,

you know, a handle of this into
the trash can so I can have the

jungle juice at the crab party.
But maybe I'm not going to serve

that at my wedding.
You're one of the few people

that.
Build the liquid of the product.

You know there's there's a lot
of brands out there that are out

actually outsourcing the
liquids.

And you know like you, you play
the role not only from a founder

and marketing perspective but
also from an actual R&D and you

know like building the the
liquid.

And I I feel that very often and
I'd like to hear your view that

is overplayed.
Now the founder create and the

distiller creates a liquid that
is.

Unapproachable to the average
Joe kind of thing.

Now it's created in the eco
Chamber of other distillers and

other friends and circles and
and it's just like okay we get

it and then and then there is
too much effort on the liquid

and not much on the commercial
proposition.

The price in the packaging, what
you said, what's your take on on

that?
I mean I think it's a little bit

of both.
Like I think it's pretty easy to

have an echo chamber product
that you develop.

But again, it's really circled
back to what problem are you

solving for the customer and how
big is that category?

It's like if you want to have
like a super esoteric whiskey

and certainly Few is no stranger
to doing very esoteric whiskeys,

that's great, you know, And I
love it and it's fun and it's

exciting and there's some echo
chamber to it, but you get, you

know, really cool feedback from
a small group of people.

But that's not, say 100,000 case
brand.

So again, like, what's your
drinking occasion?

Who are you selling it to?
Are you selling it into a very,

very small market where you're
drinking occasion is?

I'm going to sit, I'm going to
pour 1/2 a shot of this and

we're going to analyze it and
talk about it for 1/2 hour at

all different flavor notes we
get.

That's an awesome category and
that's an awesome drinking

occasion.
It's not 100,000 case brand, You

know, maybe that's 1000 case
brand that's Okay, but

understand who your customer is
and then maybe don't take that

product to the math market
retailer because it's not going

to work there.
Maybe you take that esoteric

product to the small little
bottle shop that focuses only on

these kinds of products and
they'll do a great job with it

and they'll sell 3-4 cases a
month of it.

But that's three, four cases
more than you would sell at a

grocery store.
Yeah, Yeah.

I'm kind of specifically
thinking of empirical spirits

out of Denmark.
It's amazing stuff, but it's a

little bit of a smaller market.
It's a different drinking

occasion than that's a tequila.
That's awesome and there's room

in the market, but understanding
who your customer is and what

the drinking occasion is is
super important.

Yeah.
And also I mean managing

expectations of.
You know yourself and your team

and your investors or whoever
because that's the game as well.

For example, in the few example,
I mean you've got quite a wide

portfolio.
I mean, you have the, let's say,

the hero product that you
started from and then you

extended the range kind of
thing.

We extend the range when we
start off with our hero

products.
And the hero products you'll

continue to be probably 8590% of
our sales and that's exactly how

we want it.
We extend the rage primarily

with limited time offerings so
that you have a continued reason

to talk and you're not just the
old news.

Yeah, I've had few bourbon
before.

Well, here's our new product
from few now let's talk about

that.
By the way, you need to get more

few bourbon.
And that's that's a great thing

because I mean you can go wider
in distribution with the hero

products and then keep the small
treat kind of brand.

For, you know, more influential
outlets and a smaller group of

people.
And let's say the echo Chamber

of like, you know, I didn't mean
it in a bad way, but no, no.

Yeah, but.
Or sometimes.

And you can float and you can
float balloons outside too,

right.
So you want to talk about the

echo chamber while we do
products like our collaboration

with the band Black Roll
Motorcycle Club.

This gets us out of the echo
chamber right?

And moves us into into a music
fan.

You know all these, You know,
fans of this rock band now have

a reason to consider few
spirits.

Oh, what's the drinking
occasion?

Now I know that Few spirits
works with my heroes.

Black World Motorcycle Club.
I better check that out.

Now I've changed the drinking
occasion and I've reached a

customer like, oh, what problem
am I solving?

I'm solving a fun problem.
I'm solving an entertainment

problem I'm solving.
I want my I'm going to show this

off to my friends because I got
the bottle of Black Rubble

Motorcycle Club Whiskey.
I got the bottle of Alice In

Chains Whiskey, and you don't.
These are the problems you're

solving and understand why and
what you're doing, as well as

what's the scope of the market.
I love that.

I love that.
And you can keep on growing

like, you know, Frednett Branca
in the US was small or it was

teeny tiny 20 years ago.
And it's still small, but it's

growing rapidly.
And the US is now a pretty

decent market for net Braca, but
Americans still don't know when

to drink it.
And no, it's not for net and

coke like in Argentina, but we
get it.

Yeah, it was impressive when I
found out how Fernet Branca was

drinking Argentina and it is the
biggest brand there and probably

most Argentineans think it's
from there.

They don't even know that that
it's Italian.

You know it's a huge it's a huge
category there but but that's

the you know it goes back to the
originally original occasion and

then how it how it develops into
a the fernet and coke.

It's it's a typical example of
cocktail that was built bottom

up right.
But even Jager, like the the

drinking occasion for Jager in
Germany, is very different, at

least to my mind, than the
drinking occasion in the United

States.
You can probably say that better

than I can, but in the United
States it's purely a shot

occasion for Yeager, and they've
tried to change that with

cocktailing with Yeager.
And you know, they try to market

it, but people haven't bought
it.

Yeah, you can always try to
extend it, but then the core

occasion will always be a shot
and you know, a party set up,

remember.
That this is A2 parts episode,

so if you liked it.
Feel free to.

Listen to both part one.
And two of our.

That's all for today.
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