010 | Building demand for a new category: the journey from lower ABV to Session Spirit ™ | Part 1/2 of the Interview with Brad Crompton, Director at Spirits of Bermondsey (London, UK)

I'm Chris my fill a drinks
industry advisor and found the

room.
Affair drinks, host of the most

feared Rings podcast.
In this episode, I had the

pleasure to interview breadcrumb
tune, who's a director at

spirits of Bermondsey?
The company behind Trinity, 25,

which is a Botanical special
spirit that has 25 percent ABV

as the name suggests, and it's
aimed at Jin lover and people

that are looking for a more
Great drinking and for an

alternative to Jin bread and I
met a couple of months ago on

LinkedIn, he reached out to me
asking me to be a guest writer

and write an article about
building from the bottom up, in

his magazine, which is called
session magazine.

And I thought it was really
really smart the way they create

the man before going into
capturing demand because they

created this magazine.
That is not Only talking about

their brand but it's talking
about their overalls category.

So instead of doing this Mimi
kind of approach, they really

take a stand for the category on
the overall.

No and low alcoholic beverages.
They give a voice also to their

competitors which is really
smart and very generous and, and

they basically talk about the
category and they teach people

and consumers.
About the category, whether they

are consumers, or, or customers,
and bartenders, but owners and

Industry people.
The other thing that is very

interesting for me is that they
are really Crystal Clear into

the category, which is something
I always talk about like build

your own category, they focus
very much on clear occasion

which is session spirits and
they are so, you know, clear

about it that they even Even
trademarked that name session

Spirits, which is a very big
commitment into your messaging

if you are even trademarking it.
So this is a very interesting

conversation.
I hope you enjoy it, it will be

two sessions, one focusing on
the hunting part and the other

one focusing on the farming
part.

So let's dive in and join me.
Welcome to the mafia drinks

podcast.
So today we have brand Crompton

here, hybrid, how you doing?
Very good.

Thank you.
How you doing Chris.

So, where are you calling from?
I'm based in London, I was just

going to say Sonny old London,
but it's never study here.

It's quite overcast, so I can
see some some light into that

last fake.
That's fake.

That's my turtle lives.
So, let's Let's dive into some

of the questions that I've
prepared for you.

So as you know, in this episode,
we will talk.

We will focus about the hunting
side of things and then in the

next one, we'll talk about the
the farming side thing.

So how the in the first term
will talk about how do we go

from?
You know, how do we sell the

first bottle to bars?
And then we'll go into how we

sell, you know, from one boat.
So how do we go to one case?

So, if I tell me, And tell us
about your brand, your product

and how you are.
You're working with it.

So before you dive in, how do
you create demand for for your

brand?
It's really good question

because it does feel like we are
actually hunting.

It's really it's a really
accurate phrase to use.

It does feel like a hunt know so
I think we try to be quite

creative in how we Go about sort
of hunting new brands and

growing demand for a brand
because I feel like our product

being what it is a accession
spirit.

It does fall in between the gap.
Between two very popular areas

of the industry, so alcohol-free
and and full strength.

And it's very clear that the
growing demand of the industry,

seems to be focusing on those
two areas and we sit right in

the middle.
Idol.

Which means what is going too
bad, really?

So the bad thing could be that
With no sort of, with no current

audiences focusing on the area.
It's very hard to grow demand.

And that's one way to look at
it, you know, it's no one's

there.
Who do you show it to?

But the good thing is it means
we've been able to actually

start to create our own demand
and our own sort of sector and

our own category within that
space.

So, one of the main things that
we've been doing, is we've

created what?
I believed to be the first man.

Gisin, which balances alcohol
free and fully of willful

alcohol.
And we've been reaching out and

working with different
specialists in the industry.

Different brands, who are sort
of making moves on either side

of the fence, which we see the
set on and we've just been

promoting and shouting about and
learning more about the industry

that way.
And because we sit at the center

of that magazine, a really great
way for us to grow demand for

what we do but also by using
experts in the industry to kind

of To really highlight what
we're doing is the right thing

which has been quite powerful,
really?

So that is one way we try to
grow to meant.

How did you manage to bring in
all your, let's call it

competitors in or let's say, you
know, a ecosystem around that

that magazine that you have
created to, to create demand,

how it managed to get our
competitors involved is we take

in the people.
Approach that people buy from

people and and we thought if we
can combine working with our

competitors and shouting about
the good things that they're

doing because, you know, most of
them are, you know, much further

ahead than we are in the
industry.

So not only are they going to be
able to share experience which

people in the industry can use
but so can we and so we can eat,

we can learn from that.
And we try and build a Community

Focus, very kind of you know
we're all in this magazine

together.
We're all trying to grow in this

space together.
I found it to be a very

collaborative approach with a
magazine but also in the in the

industry to and any any brand
within a growing sector, the

better that day, you do the
wider, the open the door for

Brands, alongside them So our
approach has been look.

We're all growing in This
Together.

Allow us to do the hard work and
create this magazine which

showcases all the good work that
they're doing allows us to

promote your product.
And as a result, you know, we're

going to create content which
you want to share, and we're

going to create content that
people want to read.

So, by all the the brands and
collaborators, and To authors

you included, who would then,
you know, see value in what

we've done to their story and
want to share that that helps

our reach as well.
So it's a very collaborative

approach.
Nice, I like that and I mean, I

went out when you contacted me
like some time ago was going on

and thanks for having me as a
guest writer.

Thank you.
It was very interesting for me

because it's, it's one of the A
few examples to be honest of

what.
I what I talked about, in terms

of building demand before
capturing demand, because I feel

a lot of people, a lot of Brands
and brand owners are going

directly into the capturing
demand, kind of mode on really

going into the bars and
explaining the product the

features.
But talking Mimi kind of thing

without having you know like
explaining what what their what

their what their Curry is.
And why do that bar needs that

category?
So what's the needs?

You're trying to solve and to
and to support.

And I really felt like wow like
this, these things like sounds

like you know, Brad hasn't, you
know, still hasn't mentioned the

brand name.
He hasn't mentioned the

category, a specific category of
let's say from what we know of a

category.
So gin whiskey, you know, a guy

with spirits and so on, like,
and I love the terminal.

How'd you like session Spirits?
That's why, you know, when you,

when you said it as I like, wow,
this is really like a category

and and and, and if we go into
like, a step forward into the,

into the bar, you know, when you
approach bars and you know,

understanding where you want to
play, how do you, how do you see

that, you know, those bars
reacting to that session Spirit

kind of proposition?
Yeah.

It's very interesting because
some Really go for it and buy

into it straight away and
others.

Need a bit more swaying.
And I found the difference

between the two comes down to
one factor, and that factor is

how they've bought into the
alcohol free market already.

So, you know, so our my main My
kind of made introduction.

Not going to talk my main
introduction to a new bar is I

use stats which the alcohol-free
industry or promoting but I

twist it slightly.
So in the UK there was a really

big article recently.
I think it might have been in

the times or the telegraph about
few months ago which came out

and said that in a recent
survey.

A 54% of the UK.
I look at a moderate, or reduce

the alcohol intake.
Now, short alcohol-free brand,

you know, you have kind of money
signs rolling in your eyes when

you see that, right?
Because they'll take that, and

I'll share that.
And it's, you know, our it's

working, we're doing the right
thing.

We're pushing the the door in
the right direction.

No, I take that.
And say great, it makes sense

that If you want to reduce her
alcohol, but I can't see

anywhere in the sentence where
it says they want to remove

alcohol, they just want to
reduce it.

And right now in the industry,
you have two options if you want

to moderate your alcohol intake.
The first one, if you go to a

bar and you have to hide it by
an alcoholic drink and then an

alcohol, free drink and
alternates that way.

In order for you to moderate,
your, your alcohol across

certain time period.
I don't get me wrong, there's

lots of great Alcohol, free
products, alcohol-free beer, is

I think a great product but when
it comes to Spirits I think

there's a slight Blocker in the
fact that you're paying the same

price.
I understand why.

Because the process is still the
same, but I think most people

aren't ready to spend £10 on a
gin and tonic and then 10 pound

on it and alcohol-free gin and
tonic and keep doing that

throughout throughout the
evening.

The other option is if You just
your class.

You just can see you less drinks
over that time period.

Again, social occasion.
You know who has nursing one or

two drinks across the our with a
spirit, it's going to melt this,

going to go, but a bit kind of
flat.

It's not going to be the best
experience.

You can't get involved in
rounds, so your friends, it just

means that it's not ideal.
So so I go into bars and say,

look, 54 percent of people don't
want it.

I don't drink less.
But the two options they have

currently on ideal, what if I
can can give you an up an

outcome, which allows them to
drink twice as many drinks

before they get drunk because
moderation is them saying, I

want to get less drunk.
So I decided the bar look, I can

offer you a solution which
allows you to sell twice as many

drinks.
For people who are wanting, what

I want to moderate, then you
would do if they were, you know,

just drinking less or not
wanting to alternate.

So that's my main.
My main things I use, I use that

switch.
The alcohol-free industry have

already pushed for me and then I
just said, look, are you selling

many?
Is it working?

So, and a bar back to, I guess,
to my earlier point, a bar

manager can say, look, we love
alcohol.

Free drinks is working really
well.

You know, we're very happy with
that or we've already got a

purchase, you know, 20 alcohol
free products, you know, I want

to, I want to sell those first
or you know that day going quite

well, I don't want to sort of
overpower my bar with very, very

low alcohol products because
obviously shelter and so big

others just say, you know, we
have no interest in that at all

and some bars don't really don't
buy into alcohol free.

So it's fun to find that balance
really kind of finds who buys

into it, who doesn't isn't
working for them.

It's a not and we just adjust
our conversation and they do,

they try like, what's
interesting for me laser like

it?
I mean, it's very clever what

you do on on, you know, making
it twists on on an existing

category because I mean like the
no Trend as, you know, as being

quite development, especially in
the UK, because I think, I think

mainly like the UK and some
Marcus over the us but you know

in some other European market is
still behind.

I mean here in Prague, no no
options are very, very low or

low options and and I really
like that.

But how do they say it's clear
to you?

But like, from from their
perspective.

So to say from the bar owner
perspective, like do they try to

kind of like cluster you in gin
or, you know, why did they try?

Try to divert that conversation
into.

I've already got like ten jean
brands, I don't need your.

Yeah.
Do they try to be like you do

not?
Listen and say and bring the

conversation towards their
understanding of the category.

Yeah, definitely.
They used to, before we fought

before I spoke to you really
Chris, and before we had a

really good chat, didn't we?
We talked about, I guess this

point.
Exactly, you know, if I go to a

And because we're a gin-based
that I say that we're g Delta te

voir which in base and they go
great.

I've already got 10 genes and
you very rightly said to me.

Well, it's not just the selling
of my product.

It's also the removal of the
different product to make room

for me, which makes it a double
cell.

I need to sell my product and
prove, that is better than a

product.
They've already bought from

somewhere else, which is pretty
very difficult.

So yes, they used to do that.
And they used to even say a lot,

we have 10 jinns, we probably
sell a lot of two of them and

the rest kind of sit there if
they have a preference or what a

premium version.
Where am I going to fit yours

in?
I have not even heard of it.

Whereas now since we've we've
trademarked the session Spirit

category we have changed our our
attack really, to try to find

find the bars, which understand
what we do and buy it.

What we do and rather than
trying to remove other brands to

fit hours in, we're looking to
build a new shelf for us to sit

on and start our own category
and start to rotate and make her

own room.
Because you're right, you know,

I wouldn't say we compete with,
you know, other gin brands are

going to name drop down below.
You know, any given Brands.

I won't say we compete with them
because, you know, we're not

even officially a In but it
allowed to say that we're a gin

unless we're 37.5% you know.
But I wouldn't say we compete

with the note with the no
alcohol space because we have

alcohol.
So it really is about trying to

educate and identify the right
target audience in the right

bars and that's something that
we're learning about everyday.

We identify new areas, new
avenues, new ways of working new

potential buyers.
You know?

So for example, the corporate
world is is big for us.

You know, I never thought this
would be the case, but football

stadiums certain areas and
football stadiums who want to

offer a drink that people
getting too drunk.

You know, it's theaters a really
big any kind of experience lead.

Borrow or same size as well.
Of course, as you know as any

other normal bar who want to
cater to those people, okay?

And that's very interesting and
thanks, thanks, thanks for

reminding me that conversation.
We had died.

I didn't remember we went so
much into the details.

Yeah, yeah, it's great.
That you made the most of it and

and it sounds like from what I'm
hearing that, you know.

Like when when you're targeting
the typology is of accounts, I

mean you did you did your
homework on understanding where

you wanted to sell but then like
something also came out as as an

outlier and then you just like
popped up and said, oh wow, I

never thought about this will
sell.

So, you know, it feels like this
is something that I encounter a

lot when I'm when I'm working
that you'll you let the the

analysis of your data.
Like tell you busy till okay.

This is, this is really
interesting and I would have

never thought about it.
Like so the user and the target

consumer actually different.
Or let's say they, there is

another user that I never
thought would use the product.

Yeah.
And it sounds very interesting

and and how what's the role in
this one?

I, what's the role of the?
Let's say your distribution

part.
I don't know, if you're selling

direct or, you know, through
wholesalers and, you know, do

do, do you go, you know, let's
say, do you do you go there

regular routes kind of thing or
or did you select specific for

example, wholesalers that are
catering towards the no one low

space?
Yeah, it's a good question, not.

We found the distribution fruit.
A bit difficult that I think

most brands would because if we
were knowing Lo looking, you

know, because I know the product
we have is is very good and very

premium its award-winning.
So, I know that if we went to a

wholesaler or distributor, which
focuses on no and low will be

able to go in there and say,
look, we're in their own, their

product, we fit into a category,
you know, let's give it a go

like likewise, if we were Jin,
you know, we've had some

wholesalers who We won't be able
to put you in a box because

you're not a Jen others who say
yet great.

We think that we think is great
with it is gin-based so we will

put you in the gym category and
we'll sell you others will stick

us behind other liquor.
Which is difficult for us

because we don't get the
visibility that we that we would

do.
If we were just a wholesale

category like gin vodka rum, so
a lot of it, we do ourselves.

We have signed up to certain
wholesalers who will distribute

for, as, and invoice for is
etcetera.

But only if we organized the
sale, But most of what we do is

independent and that is probably
the biggest blocker for us right

now.
It's we're working with

independent venues who have the
ability to buy independently

whenever we get a brand or a
chain more.

So you say that we only we only
buy from this particular

wholesaler, you know?
Then we enter that whole

Catch-22 you know, where it's Go
to a wholesaler and they said

that this brand when it wants
to, Let's tacos and they go.

Great.
Can you bring me 30 more and

then I consider it and then you
go to 30 bars and they go.

Yeah, well by you if you're on
there and they have no interest

in to really pushing it so we're
kind of at that stage in regards

to wholesalers and Distributors,
right now, we have a couple of

really exciting opportunities
which I'm not allowed to tour

for Howard just yet.
It's what I'd love to.

Yeah, I'll let you know, once
once it goes live.

Yeah, I'll fly, I'll text you
which, which would be great.

But yeah they're right now it's
very difficult because not only

we try and educate the bar
managers say educator that

sounds quite kind of sending.
Not educating the bar managers

because they know much more than
we do about the you know, the

about the industry and a
mixologist.

But more around what we are and
where we fit and we're having to

do the same with Distributors as
well and bread, like, tell me,

tell me about your yours, what?
I call like a see this strategy.

So when you launch the brand,
did you did you focus on on, on

one CD?
Or did you go National right

away in the in the UK?
Yeah.

So when we launched, originally,
because we call Spirit of the

Permanency and web-based within
the Bourbons, the area and our

product is inspired by the Old
Spice warehouses in Bermondsey

which is the center of the Jinn
craze.

When it first started, we've
always been focused around

London and and the areas around
London.

What we are planning to do in
the near future is creating a

bar manager tour where we're
going to reaching out to

different bar, managers in
different cities and we're

saying to them, look, we're
going to be in your city for A

very short window talking to, as
many of our managers as

possible.
Educating you on this new

product.
Showcasing, this exciting.

New product, do you want to be
involved?

And hopefully we get lowered
saying, yes, we've already

started to build this list Up.
So eventually we'll be kind of

doing a little tour around the
UK.

If you will focus your bar
managers and showing them what

we're all about noise.
Now this is very interesting

because I mean I'm a big
advocate udon, you know, always

let's say securing your Home
turf kind of thing and they're

venturing elsewhere.
And this goes in line with the

11 bottle in one in one in one
case, in one bar better than six

bottles in six bars.
You know, you can you can change

that and make it cities.
Yeah.

Countries.
You know, like I see a lot of

Brands advertising on their
website or in the brochure that

you know, we are sold in XYZ.
Countries and you know, like

CDs.
But then I always wonder like,

you know, the majority of your
sales would Anyway come from

that one city or that one
country anyway, since I really

like what you're doing in terms
of like focusing on London, and

I mean, of course, Bermondsey
being, you know, on the Femmes

and, you know, the, the
epicenter of London like, it

makes very, very well sense.
But was it was he really let's

say for through In you know
what, drove that strategy,

because that's the challenge
with.

A lot of, you know, brand owners
and listeners.

It's like they want to grow
faster know.

So they they get the Allure of
going like, okay, why don't I

sell also to Manchester and, you
know, bristle and Birmingham

Leeds.
And let's expand as soon as

possible because I've got a bar
there like in true, but three

bars in Manchester that are
interested and two bars.

Yeah interested.
So what, you know, Let's say

what drove that decision and how
did you kept other?

Did you keep the you know the
diligence of not going kind of

like left and right?
Yeah.

I think it's more about managing
the stockists really.

You know if we have if we have
20 bars in London first who are

repeat buyers, then we know we
have the income coming in from

those bars.
We know we have the awareness

coming in from those bars, which
means we build a foundation.

Or a platform to them Propel
off.

If we had, you know, three bars
in London to in Bristol one in

Manchester it's will become but
a nightmare to try and manage

those bars.
If they're your kind of your

main platform of income because
you can have to travel to These

Bars.
Portuguese bars regularly all

around the UK which is
expensive.

It's going to be quite hard to
do, but if you can build a good

platform, ERM where you're
based, then it allows you to

Branch out to these different
areas with ease knowing that you

won't have to strip to stretch
yourself or spread yourself,

quite thinly across the UK,
which I think is a good advice

for most Most brands of products
why we chose Berman Z is because

our the other co-founder is a
counselor in the Burmese, the

area.
So it's very, very tied with

helping people in Burma Z.
So that's also, why is a it was

chosen to the launcher.
Nice.

And would, would you have
changed like a bit of a cheeky

question?
Like, would you have to change

your strategy few where, from A
small town in the middle of some

samba.
Yeah.

Or some, you know, like some
Village in the middle of

nowhere.
Yeah, definitely.

I think Brand Story is a big
part of why people will buy into

you whether it's distribu, ters,
bars, customers or consumers.

So I think having a good brand
story is really important.

What that brand story is I'll
let people decide but I think

you know out Brian story is tied
to a certain location.

So for us it was easy to say we
got to start here.

I'm going to build from here.
This is our our Hub.

If you're from a small town, in
the middle of nowhere, I

wouldn't say that location needs
to be your Brand Story,

something else.
But I would always start

somewhere which you can access
quite quickly and quite easily.

The last thing you want to do is
you know if you're based in the

north of Scotland and you think
well London is where it's a

biggest Capital.
I'm going to make London my main

epicenter.
You know.

You're gonna have to travel down
for the north of Scotland to

London.
Every time you want to go

hitting the streets and meeting
bars and you know, and it's

going to be expensive.
It's going to be hard if you

focus on the town or city near
where you're from, and you can

sell it on the The Partnerships
and supporting local, you're

going to find.
You can build that platform,

much quicker, much quicker and
much much cheaper as well.

So it will kind of was like
guarantee but it certainly makes

it increases your chance of
success if you're able to

actually, you know, be there a
lot be the area lab and this is

very interesting because the
let's say this is also what I

am, what I always advise.
But there is also like another

another point on this thing
which is, which is also why you

need to be relevant in your own
turf, because otherwise they

imagine, like if people like
started saying like, Okay, like

we are from Berman Z and you
know, like a nobody knows you

around Bermondsey and it would
be an issue.

So like in that that is the
challenge that all all these

small town, have that small town
brands have.

So and I would say with this
Point.

Like, let's let's park it here.
Like you know the let's let's

stop the other.
The hunting part goes episode.

Thanks a lot for being here and
we'll see each other shortly in

the in the farming part and we
will discuss on how how do we go

from one case to one from one
bottle to one kayseri.

I was I was growing too fast.
Let's let's do that.

So thanks a lot for for being
here.

Brett, just Chris.
Yeah, That's all for today.

So thank you for joining me on
the map are drinks podcast.

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