How To Build A Craft Spirits Brand By Modernizing A Classic Category | Amaretto Adriatico | Jean-Robert Bellanger | 129
Hi, Jean-Robert. Welcome to MAFFEO DRINKS.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Hi, Chris. I'm pleased to joining you today.
Chris Maffeo:So let's start. We met in BCB Berlin a couple of years ago. Our common friend, Emanuele Scalera, introduced us to each other. And I always remember your fantastic stand there at BCB, a meeting place for many people from the industry.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Yeah. I think it was back in 2021. We participated four times. So BCB was an incredible place to start a new project. We launched late twenty nineteen just before COVID, which is not the best timing to launch a new brand.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:But BCB has always been really helpful in finding new partners, distribution partners, and people like you from the industry because I didn't come from the industry originally. So it was really important to be emerged in this universe, and then BCB was a
Chris Maffeo:good
Jean-Robert Bellanger:opportunity.
Chris Maffeo:I can imagine. I see a lot of brands doing that. Funny enough, launched my company in 2019, so I had a fantastic idea before COVID. Let's start. I have questions I've prepared because it's a super interesting project.
Chris Maffeo:What you're working with Adriatico. The category of amaretto has been a dusty category, at least from what I recall. Until some years ago, the Amaretto Sour was rediscovered and all of a sudden I started to be more on the map versus the past.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:You're right. The Amaretto Sour has always been part of the cocktail bible of the cocktail classics. It's one of the classic among the classics. I've been always a big fan of Amaretto in general because my mother, back in the day, used to cook me at home in Brittany, tiramisu, putting Amaretto inside. Before drinking it, I was eating it.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:That's my story about the Amaretto love. But then when I started drinking it, making cocktail, I was really addicted to the default guide online, which was the first online bible to discover easy to create cocktail. I discovered Almatto Sour, and this has been a revolution to me to shake it instead of making cocktail with orange juice or with lime or with Coca Cola in UK. Amaretto is mainly drunk with Coca Cola. And one of the very important pillar in the revolution of the Amaretto has been Jeffrey Morgan Tyler from Portland, Oregon in America, who did a twist on the Amaretto Sour adding some bourbon in it.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:And I think he brought something really interesting, not complicated to do. Any kind of bartender can duplicate it. But I think he brought something very fresh to the scene. And since then, Amato Sour is back in the game.
Chris Maffeo:Do you think that this has played a major role in reviving the liquor category, the amaretto category?
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I think it's a lot of different components. The leader of the category played a big role because they invented the product itself. There are 100 of brands you can find on the market, but I think one has been very fruitful on the market, pushing a lot, investing a lot, investing in bartenders, in event, a brand where most of them is copycat. So when we decided to create the READITCO with my business partner, Thomas, Thomas Benoit, We wanted to do something totally different. So having the basics of an amaretto as it used to be done with almonds because amaretto is a conversion of amaretto.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Amaretto is a biscuit. It's a biscuit made with eggs, white egg, with crushed almonds, and sugar. And when you think about an amaretti sour, it's the same. I mean, it's egg white, sugar, and it's almond taste. But now most of the amaretto are not made with almond anymore.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:And we were like, okay. That's a very interesting way of thinking that one of the most sold Italian liquor in the world is not made as it used to be made. I discovered Puglia, and in Puglia, they produce fantastic almonds. So I was like, wow. That could be a nice opportunity to use these almonds from Puglia to make a new generation of Amaito liquor.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:It's to make a new generation of amiodar liquor with totally different ingredients, totally different process. We'll use an almond distillate like Chartreuse. We got the inspiration from Chartreuse. Liqueur usually is only about maceration, not distillation. But charterers make distillation process for specific herbs and spices and also maceration.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:So we took inspiration to make half half distillation and maceration. So our product is totally different, especially with the different SKU.
Chris Maffeo:I discussed in other episodes the power of these categories that are not the usual suspects, the vodka, rum, whiskey, tequila kind of play. These smaller categories can be very interesting because you can play a bit of a side role, but at the same time it can build a fantastic business.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Yeah. Our main goal here was to create something different. It was not just to compete with other brands. For a business, you want to be successful, but you want to have fun. And what do we try to do this six past years was to have fun playing with almond producers, sea salt producers who to crush the almonds.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I had to add to to add to year we launched last year, Adriatico Zero, which was add not in the road map, like, three years ago because the market really evolved. During COVID, everybody was getting drunk like crazy. After COVID, people wanted to get healthy. So the market flip, And we need it as we are a small company. We are pretty flexible, and we can undergo changes pretty swift.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:So that's the the beautifulness of being small and independent. We adapted the brand with another product, but we also created limited edition to showcase people that Amaretto could be fun again for different limited edition of cask aged, which are fun to taste, different in the profile, the taste, the experience itself, especially working with different producer from to rum, to grappa. I think my main goal in this project was to have fun. And I think being independent and as a small brand, you can have a lot of
Chris Maffeo:fun. So let's go in order because you mentioned interesting aspects of Adriatica. If I look back when I first bumped into you at BCB with your stand and you have the APA car and the umbrellas, it was really bringing Fulia easily into the show. It really hit me when I was walking by the aisles of BCB. I had bumped into your brand previously from a trade perspective, but it was a fantastic way to put a face to the brand.
Chris Maffeo:And I think if I look back my experience with amaret in general was a bit of a dusty category, maybe using it to make sweets or having it in the cabinet, but not really knowing anymore what to do with it. I remember buying bottles in my own cabinet. We had one there for ages in Rome with my parents in their cabinet. So I really liked the playfulness that you brought to the market with a category that everybody has their own opinion of it. No?
Chris Maffeo:They are lovers. There are haters. For some people, maybe too sweet. For some people, maybe not their profile. They don't know what to do with it.
Chris Maffeo:I think all these things that you're mentioning are nice ways to recruit back people into a category that is a very interesting category, but then people may not know how to use the product.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Yeah. I think the most important thing is movement. Why? Because two things. The first thing I discovered is that back when I was a student in Paris, 18 years old, 20 years old, I discovered bringing my bottle of Amaretto in Paris from Brittany to Paris.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I discovered that in Paris, Amaretto was not a big thing. But every time I was making an Amaito Sour to people, they were like, oh, I like it. I love it. Then I continued to make Amaito Sour at home, at parties, at events, at my wedding friends. Ceremonies, always bringing my bottle of amaretto.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I was the amaretto chef. And they were like, I discovered that 95 people of the people who were drinking this amateur sour, they all loved it. I mean, you bring a bottle of Mezcal in a room with 100 people, maybe only 50% of people. I love Mezcal. I think it's a fantastic distillate, but it's very polarizing.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:It's like a Red Bull. I used to work for Red Bull. Red Bull, I mean, you're not gonna find 100% of the people in the room liking Red Bull. Everybody's gonna tell you, sometime I need it because I I need to drive, but I hate the taste. Or I don't need it, but I love the taste.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Different with Amaretto, everybody was loving the taste. Almost everybody, except the people who don't like almonds. When I got older, love it, but it's too sweet. And that's true that it was too sweet. So one day, I decided I should create my own amaretto only for my own consumption, but I will make it definitely less sweet.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I discovered that people love the Amaretto, and most of the bartender were also adding simple syrup in the recipe because in the cocktail guide, it was written, add some simple syrup. So it was really a nonsense. But the other thing is movement. Having a global leader in the category that after a certain period does not bring movement. When you see the movement of craft beer, of gin, like twenty years ago, you had five brands of gin worldwide.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:We all know the name, Beefeater, Gordons, Tanker Ray. There was no movement. They they were like gin tonic, dry martini. After this movement of crafted gin brought new recipe. Remember Le L'Oreal in Hamburg, created the gin basil smash?
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I was not a big fan of gin, but once I tried the gin basil smash, I started drinking gin because I found this cocktail fantastic. Look at tequila. We used to drink Jose Cuervo when we were 20 years old, but the product itself was not really good. After crafting mezcal and tequila arrived, they brought Paloma, which is a fantastic cocktail, more easy to drink, more approachable. When you have movement with new brand, you bring movement into the cocktail recipe so you touch more people, the wider audience, which is very important for our category.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:So I think that also with Adriatico, we succeeded to bring premium products. We brought a lot of new recipes like with the Bianco. We got inspiration from the tequila world. But Paloma, when you drink it at 5PM in the terrace, maybe it's a bit strong because tequila is 40 something degrees. Maybe you want to start with a Pula Paloma, which is 16 degree b b.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:So you're gonna have, like, a lighter drink, and then after you get the regular one. And now you know this, the zebra generation of drinker who can go from one drink with alcohol to one drink with alcohol or to come back with one drink with alcohol in the same evening. They call it zebra. It's black and white and black and white. It's not just black or just white.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:It's zebra. I think that you need to offer we offer zero. We offer 16. We offer 28 degrees. You need to give some options.
Chris Maffeo:It's very Very interesting what you're saying because I like this concept of movement and the fact that you need to be playful again to recruit people into the category now because a lot of people, and I see this with a lot of category. Previously I discussed something similar about vermouth, for example, that people don't know what to do with it apart from the Negroni and the Americano like the Manassan, but people don't really know what to do with vermouth, for example. So if you give a reason to people use it, then they may adopt it. But at the same time, you mentioned amaretto sour as an example. Also like this Puglia Paloma, it's very interesting because it's something that people may not think about, but it sounds like it can still share from the gin and tonic, the Paloma itself.
Chris Maffeo:I discussed it with Robert Simonson, the cocktail titer on the fact that you have to spot drinks in the market rather than create your own drink strategy. You know? Because if you were to invent it yourself in your home or your office, it would basically be okay, whatever. I'll just make Jean Robert happy and and make it and put it on the menu. But if you spot something like in this bar, a lot of people are ordering Palomas, but actually it's less approachable than we think.
Chris Maffeo:Let's give them an option that is really approachable so that we may still share from that drink and then it will create rotate for Adriatico in that bar.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I think you can produce the best product, any kind of distillate. If you don't have the proper recipe which gonna please your local palates, it's dead. You could produce the best bottles, best liquid. After, it's just about drink strategy, and you know better than anybody because you are on your blog, during your podcast. It's like years I'm following you, and congratulation for this fantastic work.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:But you are mainly talking about drink strategy. I always remember all the little design you put on LinkedIn, like, saying, with the calculation, you can enter 100 bar. But if this bar order six bottle, but there is no depletion, it's nothing. You will have sell 600 bottles, but if no rotation, and the rotation gonna come out of drink recipes. If you take a look to tequila, I don't know why I'm talking about tequila because I was in New York last week in the BCB, there were hundreds of brand of tequila.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I was surrounded by tequila brands, and I tasted tequila. I love tequila, but I guess that 80% of the tequila is drank through margarita. If you don't like margarita, you're gonna drink a shot. But how many cocktail can you tell me with margarita? Not that many.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:The biggest trend is spicy margarita. You see coming with a spicy triple sec, which is a good innovation. It's very nice. But I think with Amaretto, now where we have the most difficulty because as a young brand, we don't have a lot of means. We cannot get the help of the best bartender in the world for free, or we don't have the means to pay the best bartender to invent cocktail.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:But now the cocktail come from the consumer themselves, of the bartender, of the client. And that's really cool. Also cocktail competition. We just hosted our first cocktail competition with defaults, and we announced the result last week. Amazingly, in the four winners too, we are coming from Singapore and where the product is available.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:So that was a really, really nice surprise. CP everything into the rotation of a product. You just don't need to imitate. We could just focus everything on Amaito Sour, but maybe not gonna be enough. There is Godfather, for instance, which is also a trailblazer in the Marreto.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Like, you take whiskey. How many brands of whiskey you find in France? 220 distilleries are making craft whiskey now in France, but you don't have a single very powerful recipe. They all drink in it. You mentioned the Negroni.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I think that most of the success of Campari, the past year, has been due to Negroni recipe. One recipe can bring you a lot of success. And it's difficult to crack this precise moment you're going to invent or reinvent something.
Chris Maffeo:This is something that I discussed with Robert Simonson because it was very interesting that we were trying to think of modern classic cocktails and we were realizing that actually most of these come from the trade. Campari did not invent the Negroni, but they capitalized on it. They accelerate the adoption of the Negroni, for example. Same thing with Aperol Spritz it was not invented by Aperol, the Spritz was something that was already present but it was just done with wine it was invented in the North Of Italy in the Veneto region people were adding soda to wine because it was too strong. They made the twist on something that is already happening.
Chris Maffeo:So what is very interesting here is that if you think you can invent something and push the adoption, you need billions of dollars in order for people to adopt it. But if you put the foot in the door on something that people are already doing, then it's much easier and then you can accelerate it. A very interesting thing where I've changed my mind on many things about the DRINKS strategies because very often they are born in an office and they are wishful thinking, so to say, you know.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I'm passionate about art and architecture and design. Most talented artists, architect, they never said I invented something. I just copy paste something and put my twist on it. I think it's the same. I can't name somebody or any other brand who invented something.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:It's difficult to invent nowadays. You need to reinvent or put your own twist on something which is already successful. Otherwise, it's going to take decades. It's to take centuries to make it happen. And now everything is so competitive.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Back in the days, you were able to live with few dollars. Maybe you were able to develop a business. Now if you are not able to make it move in five years, who can afford to live without having any kind of success in a company? I'm not talking about million turnovers, but just to make a living out of it. It's very difficult.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Back in the days, you were able to have two jobs. You know? Your patient job that maybe your grandchild gonna develop and make it exploding. But today, it's even more difficult. So today, it's even more true that, like every good artist, you should not try to invent.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:You should just, like, reinvent and just to bring a fresh twist on what is
Chris Maffeo:another comparison to the portfolio that you have. You mentioned briefly earlier, if I understand correctly, you have three SKUs that you are currently working with. At the same time, it's a bit of a matrix. There's also three different ABV levels. So can you walk us through not really your strategy because I don't want to disclose any secrets of your company, but the rationale for having these three SKUs and how they came about.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Back in 2017, when we started working on the project with Thomas, our main goal was to reinvent an Amaretto. We wanted to have a cool design, a kind of deco bottle. We got inspiration from Castel Del Monte, which is a very famous castle in Puglia. So we wanted to reinvent this one made more roasted almonds. So we roast the almond in a pizza oven.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:We make a distillation process of this roasted almond. Then we make infusion of cocoa, cinnamon, coffee to bring some body in it, different flavorings. And we add a pinch of sea salt to give some crunchiness. We had this idea because one day in the cocktail bar, we had this freshly salted roasted almond coming out of the oven, and I found for the first time my taste. I had kind of an orgasm eating them.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:So I was like, okay. That could be a nice idea to add some sea salt in the amaretto. But a lot in Sardinia, I love this land. And in Sardinia, you have a lot of wines, which grapes grow in the sea, and the red wine come salty. I found out it was my first time I drank a boozy thing with sea salt in it because ten years ago, you didn't find any single brand of liquor or distillate already salty.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I think we have been on the forefront of this one now. Every single week, a new vodka, a new gin popping up with sea salt in it. Ten years ago, nothing with saltiness inside was available. So this one was the first one. We created then, by mistake Adriatico Bianco creating Adriatico roasted.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:We created by mistake making a boozy almond milk. So it's a it's a white amaretto. It's not a cream, not at all. It look like a cream, but it's vegan. We get the almonds.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:We peel them. We crush them, and we make a bourguignon mignon mignon, but I wanted to do something low ABV already in 2019 because we already saw that at that time, people wanted to drink less but better. And last year, we launched after one year and a half of research and development our first alcohol free Amaretto, which is our classic ones, the roasted almonds, but made boost free, which has been pretty difficult to develop because we didn't want to de alkalize because the de alkalization process is not very good for the product itself, does not leave a very good taste in moss. So we decided not to de alkalize, but to make a stronger distillate and to delete it more and then to add some specific ingredients. I cannot disclose to give some body.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:And the product is really, really good. When you shake one roasted almond, amaretto on one roasted almond, amaretto, nonalcoholic, it's gonna be difficult to make the difference on some cocktail is made to say that this one is bouy and this one is not bouy. It's a kind of mini revolution for us. The adriatic zero represent almost 30% of our turnover in less than one time. Almost one year of development, so which is good.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:And I think that we have a good potential for the
Chris Maffeo:upcoming That's an incredible results. And I mean, it's very interesting what you are talking about in the dilution and how to reach the end result of the product, but it's super interesting to hear that it's already making so much compared to the other variants.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Yeah. And then after we played, as we talked previously with the different limited edition, this is all once again about movement.
Chris Maffeo:Let me stop you there because we'll talk later about the limited edition. But how do you see these three products? Do they have different consumers, different consumption occasions? What do you observe in the market?
Jean-Robert Bellanger:That really depends. Today, Adriatico is is available in more than 40 countries. It's difficult to make a main quote about it because from one country to another, all three products are gonna be tasted and consumed totally differently. For instance, in France, it's mainly an off trade market rather than in UK, it's mainly an on trade market. Today's Adriatico Bianco and Adriatico 0 are mainly what we call our toy and horse.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Sometimes it's difficult to introduce a new Amaretto because on the price point, we are more expensive than the regular Amaretto. So people today with the crisis, with the economy going down, it's difficult to place premium product. Andrea Ticobianco on zero as, okay. You don't want to get this one, but maybe try this one. You're gonna have a fit on your market.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Picoblanco is very feminine. Women love it because it's very silky. It's very soft. It's not too boozy. It's not too sweet.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:You can make a cocktail. You can drink in neat, just on ice. You can add two drop of lemon into what I advise personally. If you don't want to make cocktail, if you don't know how to make cocktail at all, just add two drop of lemon in Adriatico Bianco. It's already a cocktail, and it's fantastic.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:We have a lot of women drinking Adriatico Bianco. My wife. Your cup. Close to you that is drinking Adriatico Bianco as a cafe leche, just adding two drop of coffee in it inside. It's fantastic.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:It's kind of a boozy cappuccino. And so zero today is touching a very different clientele, tell a different customers. All kind of cocktail bar now need to implement a strong mocktail menu integration. And zero does reply in the best mode to this new trend because people drinking mocktail today, they don't want to have this fancy juices made with kind of 10 different things which have been freshly pressed, and you don't know what is inside in the end, and you don't understand what's gonna be the taste look like. People want to go back to the basics, but in a mocktail mode.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Amaretto is sour. Without alcohol, everybody can understand it. You make a Negroni, Negroni, which is one of the most famous cocktails in the in the planet. But it's very easy. We make a Negroni.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:We skip the Vermouth Park with Adriatico Zero. You add a non alcoholic gin and non alcoholic beater, and you have a fantastic product. You add Adriatico Zero with some cherry cola. Why? It's one of the best mocktail you can have.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Two ingredients, not more. People are ashamed to drink, like, a €15 mocktail with orange juice, pineapple juice, and orange juice, and lemon juice. It's not a mocktail. It's a juice. Go to a juice bar, not go to a cocktail bar.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Our leader is still adorette co roasted, but Bianco, when it's well explained, when it's tasted, we have international deal with Italy stores available worldwide. We make those every weekend in one Italy in the world from Boston to Paris to Rome to New York where we were last week. We had a party at Italy flat iron. We make tasting almost every week. And when people taste it, it's so unique that it's flying.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:But you need to push. It takes time. It takes a lot of money to push, but it's a fantastic product.
Chris Maffeo:And I'm I'm a little bit biased on this one because when I tasted it with you at BCB, I got a bottle and I also pushed it to my wife because she's a lover of Baileys and she ran out of Baileys and I said, I think now is the time for you to taste the Amaretto Bianco Adriatico. Now she loves it and she puts it in coffee. So sometimes it can also be the Trojan horse that you were mentioning could be on other categories that could play a role, but it's so distinctive that it really makes you want to drink it. Not to advertise it, but I really speak for myself because it's really interesting. Just put it on ice or you add something and it's so distinctive compared to the other amaretto.
Chris Maffeo:I can imagine how that plays the foot in the door kind of game into bars because it's a no brainer.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Actually, it's just a definition itself of what should be an amaretto. It's just white pure crushed almonds. It's just almonds. We call it an amaretto. Some other people call it in America, they call it arjat.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:In most of the cocktail menus, they write adriatico hard jot. I'm always like, guys, it's not an hard jot. It's a marito. No. No.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:It's adriatico hard jot. It's very successful right now, for instance, in Florida because they use it with espresso martini, of course. So they make a layer of adriatico bianco in the bottom of the espresso martini. And then after they add on the top of the espresso, when you drink your espresso martini, you have the shot of adriatico bianco in the bottom. It's fantastic.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:But in America, they use it as a modifier to make a tiki and Mai Tai. Because most of the bartenders in America, they make in the bars their own, it takes time. And the almond cost is so high now that sometimes it costs you more to create your own Orjat than to buy a Driotyko bottle, which has a longer shelf life. We do sell Driotyko Bianco as Orjat substitute to put it in the rum to make mite, tiki, and full of paloma, but it's a very interesting product. People need to drink it to understand it.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Otherwise, it's just another beautiful bottle on the shelf,
Chris Maffeo:but not moving. How do different market take if you take you are based in Italy, an Italian product is made in Puglia. What is the difference between the consumption you see in Italy versus abroad?
Jean-Robert Bellanger:In Italy, it's a interesting question. I will see it two ways. One way is made out of curious people, a few names, like Giancarlo Monchino. Hello, Giancarlo. You should listen us.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:He help us a lot. Mario Farroulin from Rome. All curious people or location targeting foreigners because foreigners love amaretto sour. In Italy, it's more seen as a digestive. Maybe the shot you're gonna get as a amaro.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Amaro Amaro after your dinner, after your lunch, after your dinner, you're gonna be used a lot in pastries. A lot of Amaretto liquid is used to cook in Italy. It's less perceived as a cocktail in Italy. The main market for Amaretto globally is America because they drink Amaito sour. I've been obliged to change a bit my strategy in Italy for this past five years.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I would like to thank Italy for the legacy. I would like to thank Velier, Luca Gargano, who is a pure genius. He has been the first distribution partner to believe in Adriatico. Even if the market is not huge, in Italy, he believed in the product. He believed in the project.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:So thank you, Luca, and all his team. Being distributed by Valier helped us a lot. Because when you go to see a second, a third, a fourth distribution partner, who is distributing you? Valier. Wow.
Chris Maffeo:That's Absolutely.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:That's a good legacy, I mean. Italy today is still increasing. We are still in a Bulgaria hotel, La Rinachen, Teil Marquez, Laurent. We are in a number of location in Napoli, Puglia, Nelly Marquez, in Avenizia. We are in all the best five star hotel.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:But targeting, I would say, maybe more for foreigners than local people.
Chris Maffeo:I think it's very interesting to hear that because that adds another layer to some of the stuff that I discussed in many other episodes and in my strategies about the credibility of the country of origin. Obviously being from Puglia, you have to be in Italy and once that you nail a fantastic distribution partner like Velier could be And once that you get the credibility of all these people that believe in the product, then of course, I don't want to say half the job is done, but you know what I mean. And also then it creates the connection and the credibility for foreign drinkers traveling from US or from other countries that actually find it in the hotspots so that they can see that it's a legit product and it's a real product now because I always have a struggle with brands that are nowhere to be found in their homeland and they lose the credibility with international distributor, international consumers and so on.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Distribution is a key, is everything. You can have the best product on the planet if you don't have the right distribution partners. And you can have the best distribution partners. But if you don't have people on the field to push it, it's useless. So I would like to take advantage of this speech to thanks our brand ambassador.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:All the friends of the brand like Giancarlo, Giovanni Franza, who helped us in Amsterdam, Zito, helped us lot in Berlin, Damiano, who is helping us right now in Saint Bruce group in New York. And now the main cocktail, a signature cocktail in all Saint Bruce locations, almost 10 re restaurants. Their main cocktail signature, Saint Louis cocktail signature is made out of Aperol, EcoBianco, and Saint Buckeye, so we are very proud of this cocktail. I'm not a big fan of spritz, Aperol spritz, but I can grant you that this cocktail is a killer. Aperol, Adreto EcoBianco, and Saint Buckeye is Such a nice combo.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I could name 100 of people who help us, but I would like to thank you also our brand ambassador. We had Giovanni in Puglia. We wanted somebody rooted in Puglia to give the best out of the Puglia and Rus. Marelle, who helped us for a couple of years at the beginning. Now Matilde, who's based in Rome with me, who is always traveling to share a.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:We have Erwan, which is amazing in Copenhagen. We have Albert in New York, a true star. It's the guy who developed all cocktail menu at Dessenco, who wrote most of the books of the cocktail recipe, which are in the books of Dessenco bibles. All these guy also help us a lot to promote the brand because you can have a good product. You can have a good distribution partner.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:But if you don't have any people on the field every day to promote it, absolutely nothing
Chris Maffeo:And it. There's always this thing that gets forgotten about the importance of the boots on the ground. And obviously it's an investment, but at the same time it shows the market that there is a commitment from the brand perspective. Very often I speak to brand owners and they want to be in certain markets, but without a presence, it's always challenging to say, okay, you're here. Okay.
Chris Maffeo:You're available. But what can you do to actually move the product?
Jean-Robert Bellanger:You're gonna find very few distributors who are brand builders. I couldn't name very few of them that gonna import you, distribute you, and brand build. It's very rare. This important distributors have hundreds of brands. They cannot take care of all brands.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:You always use a eighty twenty, and only 20 of your product gonna make 80% of your turnover. It's always the same. Every distribution company gonna have a soda brand, which gonna make maybe 30% of the turnover, one gin brand, one whiskey brand, and that's it. And all the rest is just beautiful, but not effective. If you don't have anybody pushing your own product or body dedicated, you need to find strategy to have a dedicated cocktail with the most powerful product of their portfolio.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:If you go with a distribution company who is distributing a bourbon, their main SKU in turnover, and you invent in the drink strategy a cocktail which becomes leader, including your Amaretto in it, like to make a Godfather, you don't need any brand ambassador because you know that the sales guy selling Jack Daniel's. If the guy are selling Jack Daniel's on a daily basis and when they visit their clients saying, we have a new cocktail recipe. Godfather, we have almirate adriatico. They interesting. Let's try it.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Oh, it's delicious. Put me a case of adriatico, and I'm gonna try it. They put it on the menu. It works. Boom.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:It's done. But this is very rare. Unfortunately, it does not happen on a daily basis. But sometime you can have Yeah.
Chris Maffeo:It's also like reinforcing what we were discussing before about the fact that you have to spot things in the market, which is honestly, it's the essence of what I mean when I say the brands are built bottom up. You have to be in the market and you need to observe something and you need to arrive there before your competitors. Because ultimately any strategy that you invent at your desk, it's going to find bottlenecks, struggles to get adoption, share of mind of the distributor, of mind of the sales team. It's always challenging if you get some opportunities that may seem tactical. Sometimes tactics will drive the strategy.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Yeah. What you need most of all is awareness. Because if tomorrow, you see the depletion of our gene, our gene is one of the biggest trend. I want to create my own brand of gene, but it's gonna be totally different because I gonna add some olive oil in the gene, and everybody gonna love it. I mean, the gin market is not waiting for you just because you put olive oil in it.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I mean, gin market is just waiting for to lower the price to get more cases. I mean, any kind of clients, they want to have your beautiful bottle of gin on the shelf because they want to be a gin bar because it's very trendy to have a gin bar. What they gonna pour every day? What they're gonna have with the poorer in the rack? They're gonna have tinkering.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:They're gonna have befitter. They're gonna have one of the big five of the group, of the group because they have a huge they have a huge deal. I experienced the same last week in America with one of my distribution company who is selling a very famous vodka brand. We were at a client place, and this guy closed a week before a big deal with this nightclub. Wow.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I'm so proud because here, we're gonna make, like, thousands of bottles a month. When we were leaving the place, the guy was really happy because he closed the deal. There was like a a delivery truck. We were like a pallet of the competitor, a French brand of vodka. It was like, what the heck?
Jean-Robert Bellanger:When do you deliver this one? It was this nightclub. It's impossible. I'm exclusive here. We pop in again.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:He talked to the owner. Guy, what is this pallet of vodka arriving? It's not mine. We have a deal since one month. We closed the deal.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:It's impossible that you need a pallet because you already bought a pallet from me. Wait. Yeah. We have a deal. But they came with a better deal that I was not able to refuse.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:So today, in this competitive world, everybody's looking for prices. Very tough. You need to have a very distinctive product. Adriatico Blanco, for instance, is unique on the market. You're not gonna find any competitor.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Adriatico zero. Regarding the quality, have almost zero competitor. Adriatico roasted, we have a lot of competition, but the product is different. But you need to push. You need to be very competitive on the price, and you need to be very competitive on the field.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:So it's so difficult. Just do not come with another Jean brand. You need to pop up with something radically different. Otherwise, you're not gonna make it happen. That's right.
Chris Maffeo:And let's let's talk. The last thing that I want to discuss with you is the friendships of the brand, like people that help you on the journey. And but there is also another aspect of this, which is the partnerships and collaborations that you are doing with other brands that when you mentioned them to me last time we spoke, I was very impressed because I was like, wow, I haven't thought about it this way. I haven't seen it to such extent some of these collaboration between established brands. Can you talk us through it?
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Actually, that was my main concern when I was looking about competitiveness, how tough it is to emerge today. My main goal was to talk about this because I'm not able to compete on the price because I use real almonds, and almonds are very expensive. I'm not able to compete with the price with the other player of the market. So I do need to compete with something else, which is quality, but also awareness. And to build awareness in this booze world is very difficult because you you don't have a lot of space on the shelves.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:More and more bars are skipping bottles to have a very natural, very minimalist bar. You see more and more minimalist bar with few bottles. You see more and more bars with untapped cocktails. I think that untapped cocktail now are ready to make it happen because quality is good. We have a friend here in Rome, Luca Dicar Mene, who's doing fantastic on top cocktail.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:We have the Marito and Redietico zero with some sherry soda in it. It's lovely. We sell it in Fritz Zuma in Italy, and it's one of the best seller. It's working very well. But you don't see the brand on top.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:So now you need to be very strong in awareness. And to bring awareness, you need some time to go out of your own context. So first collaboration we did five years ago with Chemie Cognac, one of the most established cognac brand. And they come to us saying, we need to push the cognac a different way. Usually, we used to sell it mainly to Chinese people.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Now we need to sell it as a cocktail. And one of the most famous cocktail with cognac is French Connection. And we found out your Amaretto, which is We did a beautiful cocktail kit box with one bottle of adretico roasted, one bottle of gambier, one stirrer, one jigger. It has been really successful. So we started the first collab like this.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:It was really nice to be associated with such an established brand as we were nobody six years ago. Our latest collaboration is our collaboration with a Swiss chocolate brand called Goldcane. We released as the first roasted almond amaretto infused chocolate. So it's liquid adriatico inside chocolate tablet. It's same taste.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:It's gorgeous. It's delicious. This project has been released last September and is available in most of the duty free in airports. It's very successful. You bring awareness not with the boost, but with the chocolate.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Once you eat the chocolate, you understand what is the quality of Adriatico about because the product is liquid. You can taste the almonds, the roasted almonds, sea salt in it. I received this morning the mail on the info at mailbox from a consumer in America saying, I bought it in Europe as a chocolate in a duty free. Now I need a bottle in America. Where can I find it?
Jean-Robert Bellanger:So you see that you can drive some new clients thanks to this kind of operation. Three years ago, we also had our own terrace, Aperitivo Terrace in Rome, in a beautiful building. For one year, We succeeded to drive a lot of attention within media, with tourists, with local people
Chris Maffeo:Mhmm.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Based in Milan. So first collaboration with them for Emporio Armani because their cocktail signature was including espresso, coffee liqueur, and Adriatico and vodka. So we did this first release of Adriatico signature cocktail. And then after, we amplified it with a full set of Adriatico cocktails with four different cocktails into the box, which has been really successful because it has been sold out in a few weeks' time. We also had this limited edition we talk about.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:So our first edition was made out of Caroni. No. The first one, sorry, was Evan Hill. Thanks to a meeting with Mark Duffy, the Evanil brand representative in Europe, he gave us three empty cask of Evanil bourbon, and we made kind of a naturally infused Godfather. We left for nine months, Adriatico, roasted in this ex bourbon cask, and we released 102,000 bottles of Evening bourbon cask Amaretto Adriatico.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Fantastic. The second one has been done in collaboration with Vellier. Luca Gargano offered us a free cask of Caroni cask, which is very famous. The Caroni has a unique taste. We released 1,500 bottles of Caroni cask.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:After we had the chance to work with Bonolo Grappa producer, which is one of the most famous Italian grappa producer. We aged for twenty four months. We had to go in this Bonolo cask on this is one of my favorite limited edition, 1,300 bottles. And last year, we released, thanks to another encounter with people we love and we like a lot, is Alexandre Gabriel, the genius behind Maison Ferron cognac, the genius behind Citadel Jean, which has been a pioneer in the gin industry, producing the first ever French 100% French gin made with French juniper in cognac. The genius behind plantaray explantation, Rome, which is now one of the leader of the Rome.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:He owns this series in Barbados, in Jamaica. This guy is a pure genius. This encounter you make on in your lifetime. I didn't come from the industry originally. But since six years I worked with him, I'm very satisfied of the choice of working in this industry because it's a very human related industry.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:You are talking with passionate people, which is pretty unique. I worked in a lot of different companies before, different environment and things from music to TV, to energy drink, to luxury brands. It's the first time I see almost 99 of the people who work in this industry are fascinated about what they do. It's not just about business. It's not just about money.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:It's just about patient. Because after a fair, you will always meet the guys at the guest shift drinking cocktail because it's your job. It's difficult to have a better job than talking about business with a cocktail in hand, and the cocktail is your
Chris Maffeo:is the business.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:That's pretty unique. When you sell screws or napkins, it's difficult to go at night saying, ah, talking about five hours about napkins. But here, we've been our industry. You go to the guest shift. Oh, there is Remy Salage doing this cocktail with your brand, with your brand, with your brand.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:It's fantastic. I love this industry.
Chris Maffeo:How do this collaboration happen? You mentioned Karoni came from Luca Gargano, from Valliet. Are some through, I don't know, the same distributor that puts you in touch with them or connections that you have?
Jean-Robert Bellanger:From Ebony, I never worked with Ebony before. We have few distribution company in common, but you're just meeting people. Now I'm about to cask something else thanks to a connection I had during a fair. Now it's even easier because if tomorrow I have one idea, I want to make I know people in the Mezcal business. I can call them.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Six years ago, I didn't know anybody. But we have all connection to find somebody who's gonna give you the cask. Before, it was mainly due to distribution partner or to meetings made during fairs. Now it's easier. We're not gonna release a limited edition soon because we want to focus on the three SKUs.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:All limited edition we did are all sold out. Maybe you can find some online on eBay, for instance, especially the county one, which has we took a lot of appreciation, a lot of validation, but they are sold out. And now we are mainly focusing on rolling out the brand in US. This is our main goal now. We spend a lot of time in US with Thomas in order to push a product there and to make specific collaborations there.
Chris Maffeo:Wow. Fantastic. Fanta I wish you the best of luck because that's a monster market to crack, but it seems like you
Jean-Robert Bellanger:are difficult.
Chris Maffeo:You're doing the right moves. Let's wrap it up here. Do you want to leave some thoughts? You gave a lot of advice already during the episode, but are there some final thoughts that you want to leave to the listeners?
Jean-Robert Bellanger:So many things to say. It's a tough business. All businesses are tough. If you know a business where you can make a good living out of it, which is easy, tell it to me. I will do it.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:It's a tough business, and you need to be very resilient. You need to be very innovative, very creative. You have up and downs. The ups are incredible. The downs are very difficult.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:I've been lucky a lot because I did a lot of connection. I met so many people which have helped the brand to grow. With Thomas, we have not been lucky with the timing. '19, COVID, war, inflation. Beginning of this year, I was fantastic with the zero.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:With July, January, we were like, okay. Fingers crossed. 2026 gonna be an hour of growth because we had a nice 2025. Last week at BCB, I found out that people were pretty positive. It is really was a good vibe there.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:People were resilient saying it's tough, but things gonna go back to normal and maybe even stronger. It's not one guy. It's not two. It's five, six people who have been successful in the past with their brand. A guy like I would like to name as the last one, Elwyn Elwyn Gladstone, the genius behind the MAFFEO DRINKS And now he's doing a fantastic new project called Schenke Sweep, which is working well.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Elwyn has been always of a great help. This kind of guy make you believe in what you do because they help you without asking nothing in return. And that's the best. It's a fantastic industry. And I guess we're gonna remain within the industry for a
Chris Maffeo:couple of
Jean-Robert Bellanger:the case now. I'm sure we're gonna evolve. You need to adapt. Never come with your EWSR data in mind. Because take a look tequila.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:His tequila was George Clooney who make it happen as a celebrity. Now every single day, you have a new brand of tequila, celebrity tequila. But USA is dead. Go where nobody's here. We are in a category where few people are.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:It's tough. It's difficult. But when it gonna work, it gonna work. It takes time to make two random things. But do not read EWSR, please.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:If you want to create something, do not just read the data. So where, oh, okay. This one has a had a 20% growth this last two year. I'm gonna make another brand in this category. Take a look.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Renzo Piano, one of the most famous Italian architect. When he designed Pompidou Center in Paris, Everybody was ashamed. What is this shit? Now it's one of the most loved architecture symbol of Paris. You have Notre Dame.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:You have to refill. But Pompidou is amongst the three most loved places in Paris. Thirty years ago, forty years ago, everybody was ashamed. Everybody hated it. So it takes time to change people mind.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:So you need to be very confident,
Chris Maffeo:Andre. Thanks a lot, JeanRobert. The fantastic way to wrap the episode up, and I hope to see you sooner than the next BCB and somewhere where we can enjoy your fantastic drinks together.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Yes. It will be lovely. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your incredible work you are putting behind your project.
Chris Maffeo:And you. Merci, buku.
Jean-Robert Bellanger:Thank you. God's here, Chris.
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